Why the high E at the end of Tannhauser overture?

[MartyNeilan]

The first time I originally saw this, I figured it must be a mistake in the part. The tuba plays way above the trombones (yes, I realize they are not in bass clef) as it starts the descending arpeggio at the end of the Overture to Tannhauser. Then I checked another score and the Torchinsky books and found that this was correct.
I am playing this again, and I would be curious to hear from any Dick Wagner experts about why he chose to do this. That two octave leap and the high E punching through above the trombones seems very out of place, compared to the tuba's scoring in the rest of this piece. I am sure somebody out there did a doctoral thesis on this.
Or, is this one of those "unwritten" things where the tuba player sometimes drops the octave (like the Scheherazade opening discussed a couple months ago.)
Marty "it just don't feel right"

[imperialbari]

Fairly simple answer:

Creating motion through a long static chord by planned- for re-coloration.

Taking anything to a different octave will miss that point.

Originally written for an F tuba, obviously.

Klaus

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I'm waiting and wondering if the "composer intent" crowd will defend the high E as fervently as they defend instrument choice.

Todd S. "doubts it" Malicoate

[Wyvern]

I would certainly play it as written, unless the conductor says otherwise. Wagner knew what he was doing and must have included for tone color

[Ken Herrick]

It is in keeping with the Olympic motto as adapted for tuba: Higher, Faster, and Louder..

I think Klaus has hit the nail in the head.

So what's the big deal? Put your running chops on and..... Just DO IT !!!

Don't worry about CC BBb F or ZX tuba. You should have the pitch in your mind.

[MartyNeilan]

Will be playing this on the massive BART. The pitch shouldn't be much of a problem since I will have an E in my head already. Just seems out of place.

[imperialbari]

Just seems out of place.

If you think so, it will sound out of place.

Klaus

[pwhitaker]

Just play it with a world class tone.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Geez, Marty.

You're the only instrument in the entire orchestra playing a downward E major arpeggio against several dozen playing upward ones. You get to play in a register where you can play really, really loud.

For crying out loud...LET IT LOOSE!!!

Some of us only get to play this in "excerpt rehearsal" with a few trombones and can only dream of playing it with a symphony. It's a glorious moment. Enjoy it!

[MartyNeilan]

Geez, Marty.

You're the only instrument in the entire orchestra playing a downward E major arpeggio against several dozen playing upward ones. You get to play in a register where you can play really, really loud.

For crying out loud...LET IT LOOSE!!!

Some of us only get to play this in "excerpt rehearsal" with a few trombones and can only dream of playing it with a symphony. It's a glorious moment. Enjoy it!

That is actually my concern. I want to blend, not dominate.
(probably why the F tuba was mentioned earlier in the thread)

[MartyNeilan]

Originally written for an F tuba, obviously.

Klaus

Kinda makes you wonder.....with the equipment they had back when it was written, could it have sounded good? My idea is that it probably sounded like the local Salvation Army Band while huddled around the kettle at walmart playing those instruments that NO ONE can play in tune!

Virtually ANY instrument can be played in tune - some just require a lot more work than others. Some of the very old brass instruments are surprisingly good if they are not leaking and the valves fit well; they may just lack the sheer power of the newer models.

[J.c. Sherman]

Those who poo-poo 19th century brass and tubas haven't played them much; some of them play very, very well... even divinely! 'Course, you can't play 'em like YorkaHolton 9/4 BATS... they will respond like a skunk being inflated from the rear... with the same amount of fight back.

One of the best tubas I've ever played was an OTS Eb Contrabass Saxhorn... awesome!!!

You have a dramatic moment to enjoy, and in that register, you won't need to push to be heard!

J.c.S.