Good "budget" Eb tuba?

[Levaix]

I'm not QUITE in the market yet for an Eb, so I didn't want to spam the classifieds. I'm looking to bridge the gap between my euphonium and my BBb, and wondered; Are there any hidden gems out there that could be had regularly for under $2000? (I should clarify right away that I'd be looking at front-action, and minimum 4 valves.) I get a lot of good comments on my ugly-as-sin Sonora BBb, and I have to say I prefer it to a brand new 186. Generally speaking, if you put in a bare minimum of searching, you can find one of the B&S stencils for well under $2k. Is there any such value equivalent for an Eb?

My thoughts are kind of running that if there isn't, I might as well just skip that step and save up for a new horn. But I'm not a horribly patient person.

[Levaix]

It's not the biggest tool in the shed, but this horn was up for sale over the weekend. It didn't last long before it was bought (by me) but it's an example if what's available out there if you look around.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54488" target="_blank" target="_blank

If this horn plays like I'm hoping it will, I'm going to add a 5th valve to it to give me the full chromatic scale down to the fundamental. I'll only have $1500 in it by the time I'm done.

Notice I posted in that thread... If I had the cash immediately right this second, I would have jumped on it, haha. You'll have to post some impressions when you get it, and then sell it to me if you find the slightest flaw.

[Frank Ortega]

Buy this horn.

Yes it's top action, but it's the best bang for your buck in the EEb category.
And, it most likely wont decrease in value and probably will increase in value.

The owner may just knock off a few bucks if you ask him nicely, too!


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53019" target="_blank

[Levaix]

Thanks for the suggestions so far!

-I've actually played on a couple YEB-321's, and I did not care for them very much. They were both older horns, probably from the 80's. My instructor did not really care for them either. Maybe my school bought a bad batch, who knows? I played one for a semester in the brass band, so I had plenty of time to decide it wasn't for me.

-I will consider that York if it's still around by the time I have the money. It does look like a good deal, though. If it were front action I'd probably have to figure something out so I didn't miss it.

EVENTUALLY (if it were at all feasible) I'd most likely be looking at a B&S PT-22P (which I haven't yet tried) or a Kanstul (which I have tried, but with an inappropriate mouthpiece).

[Jay Bertolet]

Why waste the money going halfway on an instrument that you intend to replace? I suppose you could roll the dice and buy a used horn with the hope that you could get all your money out of it but that would still be a risk. If I were you, I'd just save my cash for the horn I really wanted and buy once instead of multiple times. Besides, maybe waiting a bit longer would give you the opportunity to actually try the horns you're considering so that when purchase time comes, you might have an informed opinion about what you're considering. Just a thought.

[jacobg]

There is a Miraphone Eb at Baltimore brass.

It seems as though the difference between an older Miraphone C tuba and an older Miraphone Eb tuba is several thousand dollars and a few inches of tubing. I'm assuming they have the same workmanship, although many here have criticized the design of the Eb. Supply and demand?

The little Conn is one of several that have been sold here or ebay recently - one 4v front action went for well under 1k last month, and one 4v top action even less than that. These are truly 3/4 Eb tubas, no? I would assume they have a very different sound than some of the bigger options mentioned here.

[b.williams]

I'm not QUITE in the market yet for an Eb, so I didn't want to spam the classifieds. I'm looking to bridge the gap between my euphonium and my BBb, and wondered; Are there any hidden gems out there that could be had regularly for under $2000? (I should clarify right away that I'd be looking at front-action, and minimum 4 valves.) I get a lot of good comments on my ugly-as-sin Sonora BBb, and I have to say I prefer it to a brand new 186. Generally speaking, if you put in a bare minimum of searching, you can find one of the B&S stencils for well under $2k. Is there any such value equivalent for an Eb?

My thoughts are kind of running that if there isn't, I might as well just skip that step and save up for a new horn. But I'm not a horribly patient person.

Here is one to consider...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200906508848?ss ... 1558.l2649" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Kevin Hendrick]

do not consider a cerveny 641 Eb at all. I played one, and it was probably the worst tuba I've ever had the misfortune of playing. I would play a miraphone every day for the rest of my life before somebody could force me to pick up one of those again

And yet Cerveny makes them and individuals buy them. I know of a great player who uses one to great effect as a "German F" replacement. Not my first choice, but it works well for him.

Just curious -- has anybody here played a Cerveny 651 Eb?

http://www.cerveny.biz/tuben/eeb_tuben/ceb651_4m.php

[J.c. Sherman]

If you didn't like the YEB-321, you most likely won't like any of the most popular makes of Eb. The 321 is modeled after the B&H/Besson Imperials, which are the basis for the Sovereigns and all the Besson Ebs... and the Wessex/Schiller copies... and the 621 (sorta)... and (IMHO) the BMB... and others.

As for not throwing down on a temporary instrument, I just did. I just got my second Imperial, one which will (I hope) be ultimately replaced by a new (perhaps custom) instrument in a couple years. But I got it because, IMHO, they are the best, most flexible, pyrotechnically flexible and sonicaly (sp?) pleasing and powerful ever made in one package.

I loved my Miraphone Eb... they are a little "tricky" but one can make them sing and dance; just get the 4th valve slide extended!

The Yorks are absolutely gorgeous sounding instruments, but they are non-comps. But worth it! But they are not quite "do it all" instruments. And without the compensating system, I'm loath to "do it all" with an Eb.

However, some amazing players have used Willsons and Meinl Westons... they feel much more "modern" (like a CC) than others and are very open. But no one's thought to put a larger bore compensating section on one of these yet, IIRC. Miraphone may have larger proportions for the Ambassadors, but those are outside your price range in general.

Conn Monsters have great false tones... and 4 valves could possible perform well for a variety of tasks... but like the Miraphone, you'll have to work at it from Bb down. Martins sound very nice too.

As someone who still views Eb as damn near perfect and as his principal instrument, try a Besson compensating anyway; I've used mine from the largest to smallest ensembles, and they are the most flexible beasts in history, IMHO.

[Bob Kolada]

The St Pete's are pretty nice if you can go up a bit; likewise the Cerveny 653 if you're up for an F.

[opus37]

I have 3 Ebs and love each of them for different reasons. Two pieces of advice. First, contact your repair person before you buy. There are some less expensive horns that they will not service because they are too fragile. If you are purchasing for the long term, you want something that will stand the test of time. Next, try it out first if you can. Ergonomics and sound very with horns. You want something comfortable and sounds good to you. First class horns (you know the names) will be noticeably more in tune across the range of the horn. That makes them more fun to play.

[Tom Eshelman]

I've owned 3 Besson tubas: a Sovereign, a 982, and a 983. I love the way Bessons slot notes, but you have to be careful not to get a stuffy one. My 982 that was stuffy. It takes a toll when you know every low Bb is going to take extra effort. 983's are of course designed to avoid any stuffiness issues - and it's a successful design. I consider it a bargain when you can get the same horn (the 983) that Patrick Sheridan played for around say $4000 used.

[Jess Haney]

Word of warning before you get too desperate...

do not consider a cerveny 641 Eb at all. I played one, and it was probably the worst tuba I've ever had the misfortune of playing. I would play a miraphone every day for the rest of my life before somebody could force me to pick up one of those again

I agree that Cerveny does have some playing problems. When I was in College two friends of mine both bought 686's because our school had one and they both loved it. The school horn was great but both of the horns they purchased were terrible. One had the 4th slide cut so short that it was 4 inches shorter than either of the other horns. To say the least both horns were sent back to Woodwind and Brasswind. the Miraphone 183 can be problomatic in either register. But the key is to try before you buy. The old conns are great if you are not confined to the front action horns since most are top poppers.

[J.c. Sherman]

There's nothing inherently more "open" about a 983 vs. a 982. However, the 983s consistently have valve stems long enough to port them properly; sometimes, the stems on the TA tubas are too short and then you get the stuffiness. I'd argue a great TA Besson is a tad more open if all's in proper repair and alignment.

[modelerdc]

I purchased a good used Boosey Flechter model E flat (essenttialy the same as a Besson) for $1450 plus shipping. Sound is big enough so that I don't get questioned about bringing a small tuba, slots well good intonation, as close to a point and shoot tuba as I've seen. Is it perfect?, no it has the usual love dents of a used tuba, a 983 would look more correct, and for a large orchestra or band a contrabass would have many advantages. But for the money I think it's hard to beat.

BTW the retailer who had this tuba thought it was a BB Flat, but their online photo clearly showed it was the E flat. The seller put it on ebay as a BB flat and suprise, no bids. After the auction closed I called their store and talked to the man who handled the online sales. He told me that they sent it out to a school for sale as a BB flat but it was sent back when the kids couldn't play it, and they had figured out that it was in E flat. Then he said the magic words, "we realize that a E flat tuba is not worth as much as a BB flat tuba, so what would you offer us for it?" so I offered 1250, and we settled at 1450 plus shipping. So there are some good buys, look for them and have some cash on hand when you find one.

[Uncle Markie]

I just took delivery on a Schiller EEb two weeks ago - my first EEb I have actually owned and a "return" to the EEb tuba after decades of BBb. Seems to work pretty well with Schilke 66 Helleberg and/or a Conn 2. It's anti-Alzheimer's effort - learning new fingerings for the same old notes at age 65.

Anyway - it was $2000 delivered. Shipped and packed exceedingly well, with a new wheeled case, etc. The stainless valves are tight and fast, all the slides work perfectly and the fit and finish as as good as my King 2341.

As much fun as vintage horns are - many seem overpriced to me, especially when you consider restoration expenses (been there and done that).

For the money the Schiller sounds big and round - with a pretty fat lower register as EEb tubas go. It's in tune to itself (the compensating thing works) and sings nicely upstairs. My point is a new horn with good mechanics allows you concentrate on making MUSIC with it. If you're serious about an EEb I would check the Schiller (Jin Bao) horn out.

One point to mention - if you are new to compensating horns - get used to snapping down those valves!

Mark Heter

[thattubaguy]

It's not the biggest tool in the shed, but this horn was up for sale over the weekend. It didn't last long before it was bought (by me) but it's an example if what's available out there if you look around.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54488" target="_blank" target="_blank

If this horn plays like I'm hoping it will, I'm going to add a 5th valve to it to give me the full chromatic scale down to the fundamental. I'll only have $1500 in it by the time I'm done.

Cool stuff