Horn help, descant horn

[bububassboner]

Good day all,
So here is the scoop, my wife and I have been apart for almost a year. Me here in Germany, her in Oregon finishing her masters. She is finishing this week and will be moving out here for good next month. She took some very heavy course loads to finish quite a bit early and I want to get her a graduation/welcome home gift. I want to get her a Bb/high F descant. I have a lead on an older alexander 107 (before it was called the 107) with the stop valve in all gold brass. For those of you who play horn are these good descants? She plays an older alexander 103 in gold brass so this seems like it would be a good match. The price seems really good but I don't really know what these go for normally. For you horn players out there tell me what you think of these.

Thanks in advance.

[musicman26]

As a horn player who doubles on tuba, I have had the pleasure of owning an Alexander 107. I finally upgraded to an Alexander triple horn. Make sure the descant is a full double descant, not the compensating double descant they once made called the 107V. Wilbert in PA

[bububassboner]

As a horn player who doubles on tuba, I have had the pleasure of owning an Alexander 107. I finally upgraded to an Alexander triple horn. Make sure the descant is a full double descant, not the compensating double descant they once made called the 107V. Wilbert in PA

The horn this guy has for sale has two change valves. Would I be safe to assume that a compensating horn would only have one change valve?

[bububassboner]

Several manufacturers have come out with some amazing instruments in the last decade or so.

Some of the newer triple horns (no, the triple horn as a "type" of horn is not a new inventions) play extraordinarily well - low F - Bb - High F (or Eb).

Many believe that some of the new triple horns play better in Bb and high F/Eb than many older descant horns (which are ONLY Bb - high F), and the "low" F range is outstanding on many of these horns as well..

Ricco Kühn, Engelbert Schmid, etc...

I would love to get her a triple, but those seem to be at least 7000 euro used on up. The reason I ask about this model of alexander is that the one I found is unlaquered. It seems that here in Germany people are picky about their horns being shiny. Almost all used horns here seemed to have been relaquered at least once in their life. This horn has not, so I was able to get him to sell it at a price that is less than a third of the triples here. At this price I can get it as a surprise and not bust my E4 budget.

[Mark Horne]

As a horn player who doubles on tuba, I have had the pleasure of owning an Alexander 107. I finally upgraded to an Alexander triple horn. Make sure the descant is a full double descant, not the compensating double descant they once made called the 107V. Wilbert in PA

The horn this guy has for sale has two change valves. Would I be safe to assume that a compensating horn would only have one change valve?

Just to clarify the about the thumb valves - any double descant that stands in Bb would need two change thumb valves - one to switch to the F-alto side, and another to use as a stopping valve since the stopped Bb horn sounds 3/4 step sharp. Often times the stopping valve has adjustable tubing to allow the Bb horn to be played in A and in some cases the stop valve also will lower the F-alto side a full step (using both triggers at once).

I have not played the Alexander 107 but I do own a 103. The wrap on the 103 is different from any other horn and will likely have a different feel compared to a descant of any brand. I know that a number of horn players use a Paxman model 40 descant as their only horn and I can verify that they are excellent horns. I own a Conn 12D which is a copy of the early model 40. It is an outstanding horn in its own right and every bit equal to the Paxman in the side-by-side comparisons that I have done. That said, I love Alexanders, but have no direct experience with the 107.

[pgym]

As a horn player who doubles on tuba, I have had the pleasure of owning an Alexander 107. I finally upgraded to an Alexander triple horn. Make sure the descant is a full double descant, not the compensating double descant they once made called the 107V. Wilbert in PA

The horn this guy has for sale has two change valves. Would I be safe to assume that a compensating horn would only have one change valve?

Don't know if you've already seen these, but Pope Repair has front and back pics of a 107 and a 107v:

107v front
107v back

107 front
107 back

Looks like it'd be pretty easy to distinguish by the plumbing.

[musicman26]

Musicman 26 Here Again. This posting has really caught fire.

The Alexander 107v is notorious for playing out of tune. Also, since it weighs less than a full double descant, there is less metal in the horn and thus less projection in the hall. I can also tell you that the left hand position is somewhat awkward as is the Mirafone descant, which is basically a 107 copy. The Mirafones can often be found in the $1500 range, but out of the dozens I've tried, only one played in tune with itself in the staff. Naturally I bought it.

Holton once made an H 200 double descant horn. Excellent Bb side, and the high F side was good, but not great. It just took too much work and I found the range above high C limited. In fact I've owned several of the Holtons, but never found one with the high range I wanted. However the tone of the Bb side will melt your heart. There are some Holton examples on utube, but I don't know how you would find them. Maybe just by typing in Holton H 200.

Still looking for a King 26 and a Franklin tuba mouthpiece. All of the ones I've found look like they have been dropped on concrete, which they probably have. I did find an excellent equ-tru that needs replating. Wilbert

[bububassboner]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. Ill be taking all of your advice (especially LJV) this place can be a gold mine of knowledge, most of the time at least

[MaryAnn]

I agree with having her pick it out, surprise or no surprise.
The IHS web site has a list of horns for sale and that might be a good place to look.
Also if you sign up for the yahoo horn list ("horn") you'll get more opinions than you really want.
MA

[Mark]

I know next to nothing of descant horns, but I've been married 24 years. I think your heart is in the right place, but if it were me, I'd involve her in the purchase. The surprise is very nice, however, think back to your recent purchase and the process that led you to select the B&S Symphonie. I bet she would enjoy searching out and selecting this new instrument. Germany is a whole new world to explore for both of you. Your head start will be a big help to her. Horn players are at least as particular as any other brass player, too.

Maybe a nice card with a "coupon" for a new horn. I agree your heart is in the right place; but would you want your wife to buy you a tuba without consulting you first?

[corbasse]

Chiming in, reinforcing what has been said before:
I've played a 103 for many years, and especially in the case of Alexander the player needs to pick the instrument him/herself.
Alexanders have many virtues, but consistency is not among them. Especially for older horns playing characteristics can vary wildly. For every wonderful, glorious, shining example of the pinnacle of German traditional instrument manufacture there seem to be wall decorators around to compensate.