New BBb and CC 6/4 BATS!!!

[bort]

If you buy these products from China, you can support the manifest of communism and make China a wealthier nation than ours.

How many products are made in China? A lot of electronics are and all sorts of clothing is - so you're telling us you've never bought a SINGLE item that had a tag or label with "Made in China" on it? Sure... no wonder you're on my ignore list...

Yes, a TON of stuff is made in China. I can't always avoid buying things made in China, but when I do have a choice, I avoid it.

[Lectron]

You think Chinese are overpaid? Wow are you an idiot? Foxconn puts 14 year olds to work with long hours, pennies an hour, no insurance and chemicals which kills their chances to reproduce. Our president has a phone made at the Foxconn factory. So much for made in the USA.

If you buy these products from China, you can support the manifest of communism and make China a wealthier nation than ours.

It warms my heart that you care so much about the children of China.
Now cut the bullshit! You don't get a piece of the pie and you don't like it!

I am not overly excited purchasing Chineese stuff I can not backtrace, but there are good tvings happening also there. you need to open your eyes (and mind)

[tbn.al]

Missouri has long been known as the "show me" state. That's why my dad said to put the accent on the first sylable instead of the second.

[sousaphone68]

politics aside... let's talk about these tubas

I know of at least one High profile tuba player that has sold his CC tuba to get a BAT BBb to use professionally. These horns have to have something special about them for that to happen

the rubber band does bother me... really? that's the best they could do?

Has bought this brand or some other BAT BBb ?

[sousaphone68]

Will he/she share their opinion at a later date?

[chronolith]

In before the lock...

I had a chance to stop by Elkhart and give these horns a spin. Keep in mind I am not a pro nor do I claim any expertise above and beyond my own personal experience.

I tried out the F, the 4/4 CC, and the 6/4 CC. Richard was kind enough to host me for a while in the loading dock next to his workbench. The CC I can say was easily competitive with any other 4/4 CC I have tried in the past few years in terms of being a great universal instrument. I can see that horn being appropriate for just about any playing situation you can think of. I enjoyed the responsiveness of the horn especially in the mid and low register. I did have to play some games with mouthpieces to find one that I thought really connected to it. It took some getting used to in terms of holding the instrument in my lap. All you have to do is look at Richard's blog to see the many many ways people try to hold the horn. After about 10 minutes I found it to be comfortable and easily forgot about it. The high range was less limiting than other horns of a similar ilk in my opinion. I played a couple of different 4/4 horns before I found one that fit me best. One of them just would not speak well on an Ab at the top of the staff. The other was fine. Go in with a tuner. Try as I might I could not get the low register to get blatty or cracked. It just got warmer and more "electric" the more I pushed it. This is what led me to think this would be a good all-around orchestra horn also for most players. Of all the horns that I played, the 4/4 CC was the standout. Finish and construction I thought were very nice and tight. Felt very solid in my hands. No "cheapness" to it.

I tried the F next. Played three of them side by side. Very different than what I am used to on my F. If you live in fear of the low register or "dreaded low C" then maybe you should try one of these out. Very friendly to the CC or BBb player. No issues with high register. Had no problems with the Symphonie Fantastique run up to the Bb. Valves never got in my way on the fast stuff. Easy to do the technical stuff. Richard suggested I not try the horn with a stereotypical F tuba mouthpiece and just use my regular mouthpiece. This proved to be good advice. I would love to use one of these in a brass quintet or most of the symphonic F tuba rep. The tradeoff? Maybe my time was limited on the horn but in my head this F sounds like a CC and does not emulate the soloistic sound I can get from my miraphone 181. Take from that what you will. It all depends on what you are looking to do with an F horn. That said, this F has a better scale and tuning than most other Fs I have played, including the pricey German horns. It's nice to play it without having to worry about the usual things that cross your mind while playing an F. The thing that bothered me most about the F was the fact that one of the valve slides sticks out a bit in the back of the horn. If you play with the horn near your stomach then this will likely bug you also when you inhale deeply. YMMV

Spent a few minutes with a 6/4 CC that Richard pulled out of the box just a few minutes before. I had a lot of trouble with the horn owing to the fact that the leadpipe felt very high, and that it did not yet have a thumbring. I am 5'10" for reference. My DEG stand would not go low enough to make it comfortable for me either with the chair I was using. If I bought one I would probably ask Richard to move the leadpipe for me. Also, this particular horn was consistently flat. Richard suspected this and I confirmed it for him. He had it up on his workbench a few minutes later and set about shortening up the MTS. There is a level of comfort there knowing that the guy selling you the horn can also do all the modifications you might need on the spot. Personally I am going to wait a few more generations on this horn before I revisit. Sticking with my Neptune for now.

As for the 5th valve, I personally never use the 5th valve without the 4th so I had no issues with the dependent setup. Also I will admit the rubber band thing was weird at first. My thumb kept hitting the main valve block as I was playing, but looking it I realized there are a number of advantages to this setup. First, the trigger post can be moved around on the plate so you can position it in such a way that is best suited to your hand. Second, the trigger post can be configured to roll under your thumb or sit fixed, another personal choice. Last the rubber bands allow you to choose the amount of tension and kickback you want the valve to have. And of course you can replace the bands yourself with whatever you choose. I see bass trombone players rigging up their triggers with rubber bands all the time so it is not like this a new or untested concept. It may not be for everyone, but don't dismiss it without examining the benefits.

Last, I used to own a Chinese copy. Very decent horn truth be told, but I can say that the relationship between the clones and Richard's horns extends only the shipping label on the box. Very different animals altogether. Different concept. Different product. I think anyone who is trying to lump these horns in with the clones should actually sit down with one for a while and see for themselves. In the end this is true for any tuba from any factory anyway. If you go in to try these horns make sure you ask Richard to check the valves as they probably could use some oil. Also be prepared to try a few horns and compare. But as I said before you should be doing this with any horn you try anyway.

I came away from my visit with a very positive outlook on Richard's horns especially that 4/4 CC. I think he is on to something good and very much worth considering if you are in the market.

[Lectron]

So I got my-selves one of these BATs....In BBb, and am I impressed?

We should really split that question in two

Am I impressed how it plays, Yes I am! No question about it!
It has a very easy accessible low register and sings as the octaves adds on
The intonation is far better than one should expect from a tuba this size
Even better than many 'good' 4/4s. Running a flat 3rd and a few alternative fingerings
and no pulling is needed. It's not like I have anything against playing a little trombone
but in much of the music I play, there simply ain't enough time doing so.

Having had some time with it now, there is really not anything I miss with this tuba.
It's nimble, It has the loudness, no huge quirks...I would recommend this even to a friend

The down side....let's feed the trolls
That thumbring design and the elastics really has to go....and it will on mine!
As an engineer, that design must be among the dumbest thing I've seen. (sorry Richard)
That thumbring just has to break, and having a 'spring' that rot from light
and would be ruined from a drop of valve oil?
It might be easy to service, but I'd rather have an old clock-spring that's
a nightmare to service, but lasts forever.
Felts....How hard can that be? Add some decent felts! Come on.
And the plating...It is not what you would see on a German horn, but it's
a reflection of the price. It's not a $2000 plating but looks good enough.

Still.....the buyer is the winner in terms of playability for the price.
I really love playing it.....I really can't find anything I do not like in terms of playability.
And believe me.....It's not like the middle class guy who finally could afford that Volvo
You'll never get him to say anything negative 'bout that Volvo.
This is a very nice tuba......And not just be-course I could afford it.

[Lectron]

Well.....loosing the 235 combo with the 5th being dependable, it's really only deep down you need it.
And unlike other tubas I've played, there wouldn't be any need for it in staff as it is already impressively very much in tune.

I'd leave that to the buyer......I use it quite a bit.
Not having it would solve the thumbring issue thou

[bort]

Nice! How about a video?

[Lectron]

I mean, how often do you play a low B natural? If I want to play it I use the 3rd valve false tone and the others just with standard fingerings. Does the 5th unstuff some of the lower register or is it purely a convenience or for intonation or what? I have never owned a 5 valve.....just wondering how much I would use it.

To be honest, I haven't explored the privileged ones that very much on this horn.
On my Conn 25J, I actually preferred using 3rd, but that is from the top of my head THE only time and note
I've actually preferred the sound and playability of a privileged compared to a valve combo.

How often I'm down @ B natural? The things happening in Brass Bands these days.....Quite often

Nice! How about a video?

No video is gonna be published from this house before I have a new Tuba room up
My mess @ my workshop is for my eyes only
(could probably do a closeup rec. without showing too much)

[Lectron]

I tried the privileged notes, and I would not rely on them.
They are there, very wide slots (even for privilegeds) and does not really sound that good

[bort]

Or audio. Or nothing, it's ok. Just that I've only seen pictures and curious to hear sounds.

What was the lead time on ordering one of these?

[Lectron]

I would like a few hours more behind it, but I could make a small audio

As for lead-time, I do not know. Mr. Barth already just placed an order, so I quickly made a deposit for that one.
They where ready to ship 3 mnth later.

[tofu]

As for lead-time, I do not know. Mr. Barth already just placed an order, so I quickly made a deposit for that one.
They where ready to ship 3 mnth later.

Did it go stateside first or was it dropped shipped to you directly from China?

[Lectron]

Stateside first.
It was inspected and photographed by BMB before shipped