The INCREDIBLE 6/4 BAT CC from Big Mouth Brass-impressions

[SousaWarrior9]

Funny... I meant is there another horn out there that these play similiar too. Just trying to get an idea of what this particular model tuba is like, or similar too.

If I understand correctly, this is an original design, with major influences from York tubas.

[thattubaguy]

I played that 6/4 yesterday and I found it to be just too open for my taste but it can really put out some sound for sure-I actually preferred the 5-valve F tuba that was labeled "big mouth brass"that Barth had out there due to it's big, bold sound and it's overall ease of play(even though I'm an Eb player, not an F player).

[ASTuba]

Dick stopped at UNC Greensboro yesterday, which was really nice of him (on way back from FL before heading to MI). I have to say that this 6/4 is really a nice instrument, but I get where it wouldn't be for everyone.

The horn is very efficient, which I gather is due to the shorter leadpipe and lack of independent 5th valve causing havoc on parts of the tubing. The sound it produces has a lot of classic 6/4 characteristics to it, but with much improved intonation. The instrument produces articulation with much more clarity and ease than most 6/4's that I've seen. Some of the students complained a bit about trying to hold the instrument, but I also think that might be due to their lack of playing a BAT before.

Again, I urge everyone to go try out these instruments. It is so easy for people to sit and criticize something, but if you haven't played any of Dick's instruments, you really owe it to yourself to try them out.

[Bob Kolada]

Has anyone played the C and Bb side by side?

[bisontuba]

Hi-
The CC is the one that folks have played, and I believe(?) the BBb BAT makes its first appearance at the NAMM show....but best to check with Dick Barth on that....

Mark

[J.c. Sherman]

Had my second visit with Dick Barth and Big Mouth Brass tubas Tuesday... I've been too busy to post until this morning. He kindly visited some of us Clevelanders at Cleveland State University.

First, I was satisfied with my earlier impression with the Eb, and that we left it in the car; while I have a Besson Imperial for now, it is still in the running for the "new" Eb. Great horn.

We brought in the BAT CC and the BBb, the 4/4 CC and the 3/4 CC, as well as the F.

The F is simply a bloody bargain. It's bigger than I use my F for, but it has serious ball$. Easy control, it's as capacious as allowable by law... The low Bb has a tiny - tiny - hint of "F tuba" in it with a large mouthpiece in it. It's pitch and everything else told me "this is a Big Eb Tuba that just happens to be in F".

The two BATs are actually more different from one another than I would've guessed. First, to you brass-banders, and orchestra guys wanting an occasional use gargantuan BBb, this is your ax. My first three notes made me afraid I might destroy the building. HUGE $%#@ing sound! It's very playable, the full range is good and in tune, and the bottom will change the migration habits of birds in a 1,000-mile radius. DAMN! It's better than the Holton BBb 6/4 I've tried.

The CC is just as I remember the prototype, but the 4th valve has been "fixed". By that I mean it felt a little on the fuzzy side on the prototype, making low G more satisfying with 1&3. Not the case anymore. Pitch is solid, the sound is broad and gigantic, great presence, etc. I think I'm the first person to play that specific instrument, and after a few drops of oil, there were no mechanical issues at all. I'd lap in the 1st valve slide for more of a trombone-lightness of motion myself, but it certainly isn't necessary. I might also - my own opinion only - solder on a standard receiver. Low Db, I found out, after once again failing a dozen times to play it 235 (which isn't possible with the dependent valve) is quite playable 2 & 4. My only head-scratcher was not finding a very soild "Pedal" D, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.

It's very different than the Yorkbrunner that came to visit. It actually may have sounded a bit bigger then the Yorkbrunner. The articulation, however, needs a little bit more focus and effort than the 'brunner. The BMB mouthpiece obviates that some, but for me the rim is too narrow for regular use. But it does show that the mouthpiece choice does have some power of controlling the articulation on this beast. I found it challenging to play on my lap, but very easy on a tuba stand.

Happily one of my section mates was with me to sit and test intonation with me. No strong issues at all. You can play this with very little "get to know it" intonation time.

The 4/4 is a cool, cool tuba. It has many inspirations, as I understand it. It's not as big as a Marzan, but we took to calling it the Marzanophone for no particular reason. Another player who was born and bread to Marzans sounded very solid and good on it... he loved it. I'm looking for something bigger.

The shocker - and I mean SHOCKER was the 3/4 CC (4 valves). Ho - ly - $#|+!

This is the tuba to take with you on vacation, to quintet, fly with, keep in your trunk, stroll with... I'm seriously considering abandoning my 184 for it. It's more flexible from a dynamic standpoint, it's more "modern" in it's feel in some ways, the valves were excellent, the pitch to die for, the low F great... the whole thing was worth twice the money easily and more. It's a goddamn miracle of a tuba. You could get away with this in an orchestra for some literature... well, you'd keep you job if you had this at the hall and forgot your regular horn, even for big stuff. You'd want to use is a lot if you're not much into F or Eb. I can't say enough about it except try one... I wouldn't even consider a fifth... it would take away from the simplicity of playing this horn... it's a bloody breeze. Wow. Just, Wow. I wasn't the only one thinking this. And everyone sounded gorgeous on it, and loved it.

Words fail me. I want one.

These things are amazing values, no doubt. I'm not sure if I'm going to throw down on a $12,000 tuba with these options out there on the BAT side. It really challenges that idea. I may still, but if you want a younger player to gain 6/4 experience, or your college players, or you only occasionally have reasons to go large, the BATs are really fun, huge sounding, and plug-and-play intonation. Are they $25,000 handmade tubas in their overall performance, etc? Of course not. But they are worth more than their cost. And Dick has solved the 6/4 intonation issues... these don't require alternate fingerings.

Okay... go try one

J.c.S.

[J.c. Sherman]

I'm seriously considering abandoning my 184 for it.
J.c.S.

I love my 184 as you seem to - so it must be nice. How does the fit and finish seem compared to the Mirafone? That is one thing that I love about my 184 - it is well made - just finely crafted.

I love mine, that's for sure. This example seamed very nicely made. 'bout where the 80's Miraphones were, but not quite to modern Yamaha. Nothing jumped out on the 3/4 as sub par in any sense... it was really, really nice.

BMB 34 CC small.jpg

J.c.S. (staring at his 184 like a cheating husband...)

[MartyNeilan]

My opinion on the BBb (not having played one):
The 5th valve seems unnecessary. The main notes you would use a 5th valve in the "bread and butter" range are low E natural and B natural. The dependant valve negates using the 5th for those two notes. So, you can't even think about using the 5th until low Eb (also playable 14 pull or 124 push on most horns, and not played very often.) Next is low D, which is usually perfect 234.
Any lower notes are fairly rare, and attainable with slide pulling (possibly excepting near pedal B natural) or false tones. I really don't see much being gained by having that dependent 5th valve on a BBb, outside of adding a little unwanted resistance to the 4th valve, extra cost, and increased weight.
A 4 valve unlacquered BBb would be a heck of a band horn.

[Lectron]

Well the 5th is optional, but I wouldn'd dream lof being without (again) in brass bands.
That low C is coming up often enough in modern brass band music. 234 on D i more than often preferable, but haven those optional fingerings eases things out.

I even sometimes miss a 6th valve lol

[Steve Marcus]

Well the 5th is optional, but I wouldn'd dream lof being without (again) in brass bands.
That low C is coming up often enough in modern brass band music

Low Db/C# appears more than once in Prokofiev orchestral scores: not exactly obscure, one-time only music.

[Ben]

I'm seriously considering abandoning my 184 for it.
J.c.S.

I love my 184 as you seem to - so it must be nice. How does the fit and finish seem compared to the Mirafone? That is one thing that I love about my 184 - it is well made - just finely crafted.

I love mine, that's for sure. This example seamed very nicely made. 'bout where the 80's Miraphones were, but not quite to modern Yamaha. Nothing jumped out on the 3/4 as sub par in any sense... it was really, really nice.

BMB 34 CC small.jpg

J.c.S. (staring at his 184 like a cheating husband...)

Am I the only one who thinks this looks kinda like a 621? At least the bell proportion to the other tubing.. kinda cool.

[J.c. Sherman]

It's much better and bigger than a 621. Much. The dynamic range on 621 CCs I've found really, really limiting. This is much more flexible.

[Bob Kolada]

That horn is a punchy sucker!

[MartyNeilan]

Well the 5th is optional, but I wouldn'd dream lof being without (again) in brass bands.
That low C is coming up often enough in modern brass band music

Low Db/C# appears more than once in Prokofiev orchestral scores: not exactly obscure, one-time only music.

On a BBb, still does not require a 5th. 134 pull or even 1234 push, if you have enough push room.
Low CC is still fine on a 4 valver as long as you have a nice long 4th to pull.
Let us also not forget false tones, which probably work very well on a horn of that configuration.
Again, my opinion is that you can probably live without the 5th since you can't use it for B natural or low E natural, anyway.
I would be willing to bet if you played two BigMouth 6/4 BBb tubas side by side, with and without the dependent 5th, the 4 valver would play just a hair better in the low register. Perhaps somebody can get two of them side by side, and prove me right or wrong. I am willing to eat crow, if it it justly deserved.

[Lectron]

That could very well be, still wouldn't miss the 5th

[Leto Cruise]

Any men of respectable positions/professional level have this horn yet?

[Steve Marcus]

Any men of respectable positions/professional level have this horn yet?

Don Harry?

[Leto Cruise]

Any men of respectable positions/professional level have this horn yet?

Don Harry?

I thought he only play tested the horn? Didn't know he bought one.

[Steve Marcus]

Mark Jones has

used the [4/4] horn on all sorts of gigs (Ballet-in fact, used it this past week filling in for Don [Harry] with the BPO in the pit playing Giselle, Orchestra, Quintet, etc.)--

[UDELBR]

Mark Jones has

used the [4/4] horn on all sorts of gigs (Ballet-in fact, used it this past week filling in for Don [Harry] with the BPO in the pit playing Giselle, Orchestra, Quintet, etc.)--

Mark is talking about subbing for Don while using this tuba, not about Don playing it. I am not claiming that Don has or has not purchased one of these horns. I am only addressing this specific quote taken out of the greater context, which is not included above.

This from Barth's Brass Blog:

First to Buffalo where Don Harry took delivery of his J-844 CC tuba. He used it in the Buffalo Philharmonic later in the week.

Sounds like a purchase, but I wouldn't swear to it in court.