Can we talk ?

[Eflatdoubler]

Probably my email
correct on the translation-

mouthpiece sensitive means to me that the tuba is a DIVA, and has a much better pitch alignment with a particular mouthpiece.
Got any of those? hehe.

[Ken Herrick]

Maybe the mule skinner will do a research project on this then enlighten us at least 50 times.

[bort]

I always thought it was a catch-all for response issues, some of which could be caused by gap/shank size issues. There's a lot of trial and error involved in testing things, and especially for amateurs (like me), that means trying a bunch of stuff and seeing what works best, without always knowing what and why things do or don't work.

[Bob Kolada]

Isn't that just a synonym for user sensitive?

[Ben]

I've used this term in three different manners (occasionally as a combination of these below definitions)

From the dictionary of Ben: "Words for imbeciles"
Mouthpiece sensitive (adj.)
1. referring to a unique* intonation behavior a tuba assumes given selection of different mouthpiece exhibits. This behavior can manifest as internal intonation shifts and global shifts. See ref.

2. referring to a real or perceived change in articulation various mouthpieces bestow upon a tuba

3. referring to a real or perceived change in tonal color various mouthpieces bestow upon a tuba

[Jay Bertolet]

Why not?

For me, mouthpiece sensitive means exactly what you described. A given tuba is mouthpiece sensitive if different mouthpieces yield markedly different intonation results. If a tuba is not mouthpiece sensitive, just about any mouthpiece you use with it will yield about the same intonation. I have definitely encountered tubas of both types, including tubas that wouldn't play well in tune no matter what mouthpiece you plugged into them. To me, that's a whole different category, mainly defined by my not owning them unless there are extreme mitigating circumstances.

Slotty is also a trait I've seen on instruments I've played. Some instruments allow the bending of pitches easier than others. Pretty simple. Mouthpiece selection can play a role in this also, in my experience.

What surprises me Joe is that you haven't seen more of these example first hand. You probably have played far more tubas than I have, and in my limited experience I've seen all of these phenomena. Perhaps you're just used to muscling pitches around normally and so maybe don't notice these things as much? That's just a guess on my part, I really have no idea why.

[imperialbari]

Slotting as a term is also used among horn players.

Samples of mouthpiece sensitivities in other brasses:

My first alto trombone was a Bach 38(?), the Stradivarius anyway. When not specializing on a task for the alto, I wanted to play it with a larger mouthpiece like the DW 4BS.It could be played up to pitch, but the position adjustments needed between partials went much bigger. Doable, but taking too much attention.

A Syhre corno da caccia stayed on the shelve in a Copenhagen store for years, because the staff advised only using the original mouthpiece. Which had trumpet stem, very narrow throat, and a barrel backbore. Basically an old-style German trumpet mouthpiece. I tried it with paper rolled around a horn mouthpiece, and that made the partials line up. Later on I modified a standard adapter to achieve the same good results. The horn mouthpiece also added a much better projection to the sound.

Klaus

[toobagrowl]

Some mpcs just work better on some tubas than others. But it does also depend on the player and what works for him/her.

As an example, I had been using a Kelly 18 in one of my huge-bore rotor BBb tubas.....until recently. That mouthpiece works well in all my tubas, but just OK in that horn. The intonation was good in the middle and lower registers, but flat up and above the staff, even with lipping. Response was OK, not great with that mpc. Anyway to make a long story short, I find that the response and intonation on that tuba are improved with wide, bowl "coffee-cup" mpcs like my Benge 7 (Bach 7 UMI stencil) and drilled-out-backbore Schilke 69C4. The response with the coffee-cup mpcs is a little smoother/more forgiving and the "flatness" of the higher register is noticeably reduced. Some of those higher notes tended 20-25 cents flat; lippable to maybe 5-10 cents flat before getting into "chipping-note-to-next-partial-territory" with the K18 and other medium-sized mpcs. But with the wider, coffee-cup mpcs, those higher notes are now maybe just 10 cents flat and lippable in tune (with room to spare a few cents "sharp" if need be). Slurring & legato playing are a bit easier too.

In other words, the intonation & response tendencies are still there on the horn, but definitely improved with the right mpc. I should also note that the Benge 7 goes in a bit further into the mpc receiver than some of my other mpcs. So there is definitely some merit to the mpc/receiver "gap" that is talked about on here. I think that if a mpc sticks out too far, it might throw the intonation/response 'alignment' off a bit.
I guess that's what ppl mean by "mpc sensitive"

There was a great mpc diagram in the old WW&BW catalogs from 15+ years ago. It talked about each part of the mpc and went into detail about what each part does. Wish I could find it online

[Jay Bertolet]

Hmmm, interesting observations Joe. I understand your perceptions of the pitch moving across the board with a mouthpiece change but I can confirm this can also occur on specific notes. I currently own one such example, my cimbasso. When initially searching for a good mouthpiece match, I decided to go for a really brighter, obviously non-tuba like sound, smaller mouthpiece. The downside was that some of the intonation was really hard for me to manage. I later switched mouthpieces to a slightly bigger, not as obviously non-tuba like sounding mouthpiece and the really haywire intonation went mostly away. This was not a shift across the board, but specific pitches were individually affected. I can't explain it.

As to slotting, my tuning conception requires adjustment on all pitches. I strive for A=440 but the reality is that I have to adjust all the time to be in tune with the ensemble. This can occur on any note, at any time. I always try and do this by moving slides but my current instrument is very easy to blow one way or the other without moving the slides. It's quite a trap really, since I know that lipping pitches leads to uncentered notes in my playing. I have to be very cautious and always look to move slides first.

[Jay Bertolet]

I couldn't agree more! Some of the mouthpiece choices I see are truly dumbfounding. I have tried many of these oversized mouthpieces and not a one of them worked for me. I still see many in use and I used to chalked it up to the fact that maybe my own embouchure is a little on the smaller side. But after seeing these things being used so often, I've come to the conclusion that face size really isn't the deciding factor. I've had many students come to me with the concept in their head that a bigger mouthpiece is better and will produce a bigger sound. That logic has never worked for me. I clearly remember when I bought my Nirschl 6/4 and getting the recommendation from Floyd Cooley to use a Conn 7B(!) on it. That mouthpiece was a bit too small for my tastes but my Laskey 30H isn't overly different and works great.

I think part of the problem is that I don't see many teachers advocating "inner strength" in the sound to achieve projection. I was always taught that if your sound is really well centered and characteristic, it will project like crazy. Massive equipment isn't necessary if you're doing all the other stuff properly. A bigger mouthpiece, without the proper technique, is just going to give you a wealth of intonation headaches. Even with proper technique, I haven't noticed a bigger sound using a bigger mouthpiece. To each his own...

[toobagrowl]

...but most medium to extra-large size tubas will "work" (and with about the same intonation tendencies...just n slightly different "starting places") with most anything from a Miraphone C4 to a Conn Helleberg. ...but some of the ultra-deep "bucket" mouthpieces (mouthpieces that cause me to face-palm, yet I know that many tuba players use them) that I've seen in wide use...sure, those could start wreaking havoc with the scale of some tubas.

Well that was kinda what I was getting at...
Tubas have nodes and anti-nodes......and it would seem to me that the right mouthpiece(s) better 'align' those nodes and anti-nodes because of their overall 'correct' size/shape for a particular tuba That's why some mpcs just work better for some tubas than others. The intonation & response tendencies will still be there on the tuba, but can be improved with the right mouthpiece