Sousaphone knuckles?

[scottw]

Is there anyone here who knows if these "knuckles" or extensions come in different bore sizes? I would like to use one for my "new " 1864 Slater tuba, both for tuning [to get it a bit lower pitch] and for ease of positioning. I tried one belonging to a friend [he said it was "standard" size] and it bottomed out in the large receiver before it sealed. I measure the bore at the end of the receiver at @ 5/8th" ID. Most mouthpieces come very close to bottoming out, too, as this thing is quite large. I got to thinking that maybe a knuckle for one of the huge Sousaphones might well be bigger?
Thanks!

[scottw]

Thanks, Goodgigs and Kiltie.
It's been 40 years since I thought about bits and playing a Sousaphone: I don't march. My friend's solution of using a bit on his gave me the idea. I think I will try to get a smaller receiver put on it to eliminate the problem. I am still left with the problem, though, of being very sharp; the main slide is only in < 1/2" when playing in a group. That might have to be dealt with some other way, too. Whatever I do I have to be respectful about keeping the integrity of a 150 yo horn.
Scottw

[pjv]

Personally, I'd also go the surgery route. There's a reason that brass instruments have leadpipes and they can be very important in determining how an instrument responds and how reliable that response is. Putting your mouthpiece in a sousaphone bit and then in your leadpipe could have an adverse effect on how your tuba plays.

good luck,
Patrick

[pjv]

It seems that during performances, my 40K and my 14K are less reliable for clean playing than my tubas are.

Both my horns are not set up to make on the fly intonation adjustments, so I'm aware of what effect these tuning peculiarities have on clean playing. Still, I've always assumed that the precision unreliability also had to do with the fact that the leadpipe setup on all other brass instruments differs with that of the sousaphone.

Tubas are big and often very unwieldy beasts, ergonomically. A bit is a simple, cheep and effective solution to many of ergonomic problems. Yet its also a thing of the past. In the professional brass world its simply not done, or at least very rarely. I've seen tubists playing in the weirdest contortions or with all kinds of stands or weird mouthpipe adjustments, but the simple usage of a bit remains something reserved for 6/4 Conns and Martins....and sousaphones.

Now I've always noticed a certain panic amongst musicians and manufacturers when it comes to the mouthpipe in general. Even the removable mouthpipes seem to be "undesirable" and "risky". So is there a reason not to use a bit on a tuba? Is the disappearance of bit usage on modern day tubas justifiable or Is my faith in the decision making of brass manufacturers over exaggerated?

-Pat

[Paul Scott]

The Martin "bits" are actually much more sophisticated than your typical set of sousa bits. They fit together quite precisely and create a smooth leadpipe inside.

[Tundratubast]

Paul,
Where does one find a pair of Martin tuba bits for a 6/4????

[Paul Scott]

Martin Wilk has been making wonderful reproductions of the original Martin "bits", ("articulated leadpipe" might be a better term for these items). I think his are actually superior in construction in comparison to the originals. I'll send you his contact info.

[Paul Scott]

The old Martin sousas used exactly the same "bits" as the tubas. The upper leadpipe (or "neck") had a receiver that accepted the two bits in the same way that the leadpipe on the tubas did. Sadly, many of these sousas were retro-fitted with replacement necks, (usually Conns).

[Lee Stofer]

Instruments tend to work best when keeping within the original design idea. I have played a number of Martin Mammoths on gigs now, and with the proper bits, they are just golden - love 'em!

This weekend, I was playing a Conn 20J from 1956, and with one Conn bit, it is great, too - a bit different from a Martin, but a very fine horn.

With a Civil War-era instrument, I think I'd recommend some custom work that is done in keeping with what the instrument is, design-wise, whilst bringing it to a usable pitch and general reliability. Some of those old horns are surprisingly good, producing sounds and technique that I didn't think possible from such relics. I do not think that sousaphone bits would do you any good.

[scottw]

Thanks, all, for the education as to bits. I finally came to the same conclusion as Lee, that I should change out the lead pipe and receiver, thereby getting the MP angled properly, as well as increasing the length slightly to aid in tuning. Work is proceeding as we speak! I will let you know how it comes out when I get it back next weekend.

[GC]

Sousaphone knuckles still sounds like an orthopedic problem.