King 2341 leadpipe tweak

[Euphtub]

A few weeks ago I took the little screw out of my King that attaches the leadpipe to the bell. I'd like to be able to say I was experimenting with vibration, resonance, tuba—voodoo stuff…but I was really just cleaning the leadpipe and forgot to put it back on the bell.

I was playing on my new Sellmansberger Imperial (freakin awesome, by the way) and with the leadpipe disconnected from the bell, my wife asked me if I was trying out a different horn.

I made some comparison recordings and sent to a few people for input. Sure enough—different sound.

I've now had my tech remove the little nub and the lyre holder on the leadpipe and it changed for the better again. At first I thought it was my imagination, but I recorded me playing the same etude with all of the little changes along the way.

1. Vented the 1st, 3rd, and 4th valves
2. Purchased Imperial
3. Detached leadpipe from bell
4. Removed both soldered on bits from leadpipe.

I am so glad I kept this horn!

I recommend to anyone looking for clearer articulation and smoother slurs on this horn to vent those valves and detach the leadpipe from the bell.

[Jack Denniston]

I have a different question about my King 2341 leadpipe. Mine is the older model, with detachable bell. I like it a lot, but the leadpipe is too low and I'd like to raise it. As it is now, I have to hold the horn in my lap (instead of resting it on the chair), which I can do, but the main problem is that I have to scrunch my neck forward at an uncomfortable angle in order to get the mouthpiece to meet my face at the proper angle (I have an overbite and so I naturally have a downward airstream).

So my question is, can that be done without adversely affecting the horn or it's playing properties?

[Dan Schultz]

Get a tuba rest and quit moving leadpipes forever.

[Euphtub]

Just out of curiosity, how many different King 2341s have you played?

About 25. I teach private lessons. Just about every middle school I teach for has this tuba.

[Euphtub]

I have a different question about my King 2341 leadpipe. Mine is the older model, with detachable bell. I like it a lot, but the leadpipe is too low and I'd like to raise it. As it is now, I have to hold the horn in my lap (instead of resting it on the chair), which I can do, but the main problem is that I have to scrunch my neck forward at an uncomfortable angle in order to get the mouthpiece to meet my face at the proper angle (I have an overbite and so I naturally have a downward airstream).

So my question is, can that be done without adversely affecting the horn or it's playing properties?

I had the older model as well, but it was the one without the first valve slide accessible with my left hand. 1241? Maybe?

I think know what you're talking about. I ended up using a stand as Dan suggested.

[Jack Denniston]

Get a tuba rest and quit moving leadpipes forever.

Thanks, but I don't think a tuba rest would solve this problem. The height of the leadpipe isn't the primary issue. Rather, it is the angle that is the problem. As it is, the mouthpiece meets my face at the wrong angle.

[Euphtub]

Get a tuba rest and quit moving leadpipes forever.

Thanks, but I don't think a tuba rest would solve this problem. The height of the leadpipe isn't the primary issue. Rather, it is the angle that is the problem. As it is, the mouthpiece meets my face at the wrong angle.

Has it been bent? Can you post a picture?

[Euphtub]

Just out of curiosity, how many different King 2341s have you played?

About 25. I teach private lessons. Just about every middle school I teach for has this tuba.

Ok... (do see you where I'm going with this?)

Would the modifications be worthwhile on each of those individual instruments or perhaps would a certain mouthpiece be better suited?

I couldn't care less what schools spend their money on. I'm just excited that my tuba sounds better than it ever has.

I wouldn't recommend a floating leadpipe on a horn within 10 feet of a middle schooler.

[Euphtub]

Do NOT remove any sort of leadpipe attachment points on middle school tubas. That is guaranteeing they will be destroyed. Maybe - and it would be a big maybe - for a very strong HS program like at Marcus or Lewisville, but even then I would not do it. These kids regularly pick horns up by whatever is handy, and frequently this is the leadpipe. All school horns should have leadpipes that are soldered to the bell or attached *very* securely to the bell with beefy screw braces.

Show me in my original post where I suggested this.

[Euphtub]

I think some of y'all sit around trying to incite arguments just because you're bored.

If I had been referring to Middle School band programs why would I have been so cryptic? I was clearly speaking to owners of my specific instrument. If you needed clarification you should have asked a more specific question.

[Euphtub]

I did it because I hated the sound of my tuba and was going to sell it.

It doesn't matter at this point. You've torpedoed my post to satisfy whatever you had on your mind.

[Euphtub]

Oh, no. The recommendations still stand.

[tofu]

Ahh TubeNet - ya gotta love it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o

Euphtub don't let the TNFJ get you down. They just like to fully vet all posts for any hint of communication failures.

It's always helpful when someone post things that have helped them or their horn if for no other reason it may give someone a idea for their own horn.

I've got one of the early "new" 2341's. It was actually B stock which I bought because it played so much better than any of the other ones I had tried.
It was very good to start with,but now is spectacular. I too vented the valves and I added a couple extra water spit valves to alleviate the King Spin. The things that made a big difference in the horn operationally was precisely aligning the valves, changing the valve springs to Yamaha springs, precisely aligning all the valve slides /lapping the first valve slide and redoing much of the "less than spectacular" soldering job that the factory did literally taking it apart and building it again. It truly plays like a very fine CC now. My leadpipe is soldered to the bell and I wouldn't touch mine as the horn nows sounds too good to mess with. If you have a photo I would really like to see how King is now doing the leadpipe with screw braces.

I do appreciate what Wade is saying about kids picking up the horn by whatever is handy. It is so much easier (and way better for the horn) to move around with this horn with you arm up and under the bell with the edge of the bell on your shoulder versus holding it by a slide as dead weight hanging straight down from the arm. I sometimes wonder if anybody bothers to show the kids how to pickup and move about with tubas. I think many kids simply don't know any better.

[Euphtub]

I do. We have a little parade around the band hall the first day they pick it up. Euphoniums and tubas. Now if I could just get band directors to stopping tuning them to an F…

Here's a picture before I had them removed. Now the little screw mount on the leadpipe and the lyre holder are gone. It now plays better than any 56J I ever tried. It is clearer and much easier to play in the upper register.

[tofu]

I do. We have a little parade around the band hall the first day they pick it up. Euphoniums and tubas. Now if I could just get band directors to stopping tuning them to an F…

Here's a picture before I had them removed. Now the little screw mount on the leadpipe and the lyre holder are gone. It now plays better than any 56J I ever tried. It is clearer and much easier to play in the upper register.

Thanks - that is interesting. I wonder if King went to this because it was a cheaper/faster on the assembly line. My understanding is that is why they went to the detachable valve cluster. I see you're using an Imperial. I've found the horn to be pretty flexible to mouthpieces, but does seem to lean towards medium sized funnels. The ones I've like best for my 2341 include a custom Schilke that the old man modified for me back in 1972 that is based on the old Schilke 67, my Wick 2, my Conn 2, and my Blokepiece Symphony with the rim off my LM-10.

Good for you showing the kids how to hold the horn. More folks should do so. We did a joint concert a few weeks ago with a very fine middle school band. I had to laugh because when I was going on stage to do a couple of joint numbers the tuba players said "hey we really like how you move with the tuba" - nobody had ever shown them how to hold the horn so they always grabbed it by the first valve slide. Now they know how to properly walk around with a tuba.

[Euphtub]

I do. We have a little parade around the band hall the first day they pick it up. Euphoniums and tubas. Now if I could just get band directors to stopping tuning them to an F…

Here's a picture before I had them removed. Now the little screw mount on the leadpipe and the lyre holder are gone. It now plays better than any 56J I ever tried. It is clearer and much easier to play in the upper register.

Thanks - that is interesting. I wonder if King went to this because it was a cheaper/faster on the assembly line. My understanding is that is why they went to the detachable valve cluster. I see you're using an Imperial. I've found the horn to be pretty flexible to mouthpieces, but does seem to lean towards medium sized funnels. The ones I've like best for my 2341 include a custom Schilke that the old man modified for me back in 1972 that is based on the old Schilke 67, my Wick 2, my Conn 2, and my Blokepiece Symphony with the rim off my LM-10.

Good for you showing the kids how to hold the horn. More folks should do so. We did a joint concert a few weeks ago with a very fine middle school band. I had to laugh because when I was going on stage to do a couple of joint numbers the tuba players said "hey we really like how you move with the tuba" - nobody had ever shown them how to hold the horn so they always grabbed it by the first valve slide. Now they know how to properly walk around with a tuba.

I have a friend with a satin silver model with the leadpipe soldered on. He uses a Schilke 67 as well. It doesn't sound good on my horn. The Imperial, Symphony, and PT-88 are the only ones I've tried that I like the sound of. Although I haven't tried with my new tweaks.

Email me if you want and I'll send you the sound files. It's actually rather interesting.

[Sandlapper]

You have "before" picture, how about an "after" showing the modifications made?

Thanks

[Euphtub]

This is what the leadpipe looks like now. Very simple. It took about 30 seconds.

[sailn2ba]

Hey, guys. . . Concentrate on the data.

[Tubajug]

I'm not sure if I really want to jump in here, but I simply read that when he was asked how many Kings he had played he said 25, and that was because of their being plentiful in the middle schools he has taught at. I didn't read it as suggesting that all 25 of those student tubas be modified, just that he had played a large number of that kind of tuba before coming to his conclusion when modifying his tuba.

That's how I read it. Hope I'm not adding fuel to the fire...