Transposition stuff....again...

[Tubajug]

Hey guys and gals,

I did some searches and didn't quite find what I was looking for, so here's my "transposition situation:"

With my little Eb coming close to being finished, I've been thinking about stuff I'd like to play on it and that got me thinking "Hey, I'm going to have to learn Eb fingerings!" I should be able to get them down fairly quickly (I hope). I played on a CC tuba in college and played an F tuba for one of our orchestra concerts with no huge issues.

I've heard the "read bass clef as treble clef and use trumpet fingerings" for Eb, which should be fine, because I know trumpet fingerings too.

My question is this: If I want to read an Eb horn part (I'm wanting to try some horn concertos for fun), what would the trick be there? Obviously, on my Bb tuba, it's the old alto sax, "read it as bass cleff and add three flats" trick, but is there anything for Eb tuba reading an Eb part? I've been running around the transpositions in my head and came up with this:

Would I still read it as bass clef and use trumpet fingerings? I think that's it, but would like your confirmation/rejection of my theory.

Sorry for the long post about one question, but thank you, as always, for any help!

[J.c. Sherman]

Just read it as if it's trumpet music - no key or clef changes needed - and it'll sound one octave below Eb horn.

[peter birch]

Just read it as if it's trumpet music - no key or clef changes needed - and it'll sound one octave below Eb horn.

if you are going to do that then you need to read it as if there are 3 extra sharps in the key signature, there is a fingering chart for Eb tuba in the Tips section (the link is at the top of this page)

[J.c. Sherman]

Just read it as if it's trumpet music - no key or clef changes needed - and it'll sound one octave below Eb horn.

if you are going to do that then you need to read it as if there are 3 extra sharps in the key signature, there is a fingering chart for Eb tuba in the Tips section (the link is at the top of this page)

Dead wrong.

You do that, a written C scale will come out as C# minor with a flat 2nd (whatever the hell mode that is). Eb horn is Eb horn... the tuba's just down one octave, and thusly - being in the same key, will make the same notes sounding one octave down... as long as you read trumpet (or other treble clef saxhorn) fingerings.

J.c.S. (most of whose repertoire consists of horn literature and Eb trumpet music)

...and practices his Arban in Eb treble on his Eb tuba

[Tubajug]

Thanks J.c., that's what I needed to know!

[hbcrandy]

Just read it as if it's trumpet music - no key or clef changes needed - and it'll sound one octave below Eb horn.

if you are going to do that then you need to read it as if there are 3 extra sharps in the key signature, there is a fingering chart for Eb tuba in the Tips section (the link is at the top of this page)

Dead wrong.

You do that, a written C scale will come out as C# Dorian. Eb horn is Eb horn... the tuba's just down one octave, and thusly - being in the same key, will make the same notes sounding one octave down... as long as you read trumpet (or other treble clef saxhorn) fingerings.

J.c.S. (most of whose repertoire consists of horn literature and Eb trumpet music)

...and practices his Arban in Eb treble on his Eb tuba

Mr. Sherman is eactly right. When reading a treble clef, horn in Eb part on an Eb tuba, if you know trumpet fingerings, it is read as if you have a large trumpet in your hands using straight trumpet fingerings. Adding 3 sharps to the key signature is for reading a bass clef part on a treble clef, Eb instrument such as Eb baritone saxophone reading a tuba part. If you do not know trumpet fingerings and want to visualize the Eb treble clef part in bass clef, you mentally change the clef sign to bass clef and add 3 FLATS to the key signature.

I have been using the above methods for 30 years. They are correct

[Tubajug]

Just do like I do...

ONLY play Eb instruments when the gig doesn't involve reading music.

Haha, I like that bloke! Well, the only gig in the foreseeable future would be Tuba Christmas on this horn... I hope to have those tunes all practiced up by then!

On a side note, I was browsing the Simonetti Historic Tuba Collection website and found that they have two Lyon and Healy Eb tubas, one silver and one in raw brass (pictured below). Both have certain characteristics that mine seems to have. The space between the tubes in the tuning loop, the bell size, and valve caps and buttons on the silver one look like mine. But the bows on the raw brass one are closer to the set up on mine. Mine looks a little more compact than the silver one, more like the brass one. Their silver one is more "slender" than mine. Neither of these are marked "F. Jaubert & Co." like mine is, so they're not my exact horn (obviously).

But I contacted the museum and Matt Ransom was kind enough to give the silver one a toot and see if it played in modern pitch (its slide is much longer than mine) and he gave me the measurements for the outer tubes. Hopefully that will give me a starting point for how much I need extend my tuning slide to get it down to modern pitch. He was extremely helpful, and the horn they have does play at A440.

Any of your thoughts as you compare those horns to mine? The silver one seems to be the closest match, which is why I asked him to measure that one for me.

Here's a shot of my horn for reference:



Here's the silver one:



And the raw brass:

[J.c. Sherman]

Those are all three wildly different instruments. I believe yours was made in France, probably by Trieber, Lecompt or some such... I had one exactly like it. Add two 3" extensions and you should be good to go.

J.c.S.