best compromise for covering bari and tuba parts?

[fufufini]

Hi... first thanks to those who run this great forum, and those who sponsor its hosting... it's been very useful.

I was a tuba player 30 yrs ago in school and now getting back into a local town gazebo band. Somebody has lent me a Besson 700 3-valve and 6.5A VB mouthpiece and I'm having some luck with it, switching between baritone and tuba parts (one octave up) since the tuba player's often absent. If I were to get my own horn, would a 4-valve baritone be about the best compromise for doing this? Currently I find the lower notes (towards bottom of bass staff) are harder to punch out cleanly embouchure-wise, would this typically get quite a bit easier with 4 valves? I live in a remote area so there are few live demo options.

Apologies if this is a worn-out topic. -steve

[J.c. Sherman]

I'll also plug the Yamaha Bobo TT mouthpiece as good for low range, in-tune Euph work with a tuba rim.

Check out the BMB Euph as well; just tried one Saturday - very nice ax for the $$$

J.c.S.

[Bob Kolada]

I haven't tried the tenor tuba mouthpiece, but I haven't found any comp euph (except for the no longer made Miraphone 1258, that thing rocks!) to play well in the low valve range (right below the bass clef) with a "regular" big mouthpiece (bass trombone, contrabass trombone,...). They all seem to be best with something around the 5g range. Anything else seems stuffy. Non comp euphs play just fine with a huge mouthpiece, though you need more valves or triggers then.

But a comp euph as bloke suggests will do what you want just fine though they're not the most free blowing horns. I'd suggest possibly considering a 3rd valve trigger down the road to really nail low C's and B's.

My "plan" down the road is to get a 5/6 front valve euph built up as a light quintet/euph/fun horn but the only current 5 valve euphs are kind of expensive and different.

[J.c. Sherman]

Bob, you're describing a King 2280 to a T. Plug a Bobo TT into that thing, throw on a 5th valve if you must, and you'll nuke the world!

[J.c. Sherman]

What about getting a Yamaha 321 euphonium and adding the aftermarket fifth?

That's what I currently play (though I have the stock Yamaha 5th, converted to a permanent mount). I have the TT mouthpiece too.

The King 2280 is meant to be played like a giant cornet; the third valve slide has a trigger, and the fourth can be tuned flat for Eb and down. It's unique, but a good system, and an incredibly open instrument (and it can sound gigantic). It's not like anything else.

I prefer the more old-school character of the 321 (a nice balance between the British euph sound and the American pea-shooters) myself... YMMV

[MartyNeilan]

What about getting a Yamaha 321 euphonium and adding the aftermarket fifth?

The King 2280 is meant to be played like a giant cornet; the third valve slide has a trigger, and the fourth can be tuned flat for Eb and down. It's unique, but a good system, and an incredibly open instrument (and it can sound gigantic). It's not like anything else.

FWIW, that is the exact same system I am using on my Conn 2J CC tuba to get a better low register on a 4 valve horn - long 4th slide for a 1-4 F without pulling anything (same as low Eb on an Bb horn) and a very workable 3rd valve that fills in all the gaps. No need for a trigger due to the slide arrangement.

[sticky_valve]

Bob, you're describing a King 2280 to a T.

+1

I use a 3G on my 2280, big sound top and bottom. The receiver is so big on the euph, it will fit by Helleberg 120S mp (though it sounds terrible!). I don't know if the mp receiver is originally that big?

[J.c. Sherman]

What about getting a Yamaha 321 euphonium and adding the aftermarket fifth?

The King 2280 is meant to be played like a giant cornet; the third valve slide has a trigger, and the fourth can be tuned flat for Eb and down. It's unique, but a good system, and an incredibly open instrument (and it can sound gigantic). It's not like anything else.

FWIW, that is the exact same system I am using on my Conn 2J CC tuba to get a better low register on a 4 valve horn - long 4th slide for a 1-4 F without pulling anything (same as low Eb on an Bb horn) and a very workable 3rd valve that fills in all the gaps. No need for a trigger due to the slide arrangement.

And I do that with my 641 "Weapon" Yamaha BBb; the 4th is tuned to an in-tune 2 & 4, and 1 and 4 pulled is balls-on low Eb. Everything else has the 1st slide treated like a trumpet slide, and it's every bit as fast (and vented). It's a really great system, which Ron Bishop led me to. Everything's in tune, low CC is possible, and the only note which is quirky (besides the WTF high G) is contra D, which is just pushing 4 back in for a second... but it's lipable without it (and rare).

[tubajoe]

If I were to get my own horn, would a 4-valve baritone be about the best compromise for doing this? Currently I find the lower notes (towards bottom of bass staff) are harder to punch out cleanly embouchure-wise, would this typically get quite a bit easier with 4 valves? I live in a remote area so there are few live demo options.

Apologies if this is a worn-out topic. -steve

Totally viable question. I'd think it's probably easier to go up than go down... if you have access, it's probably better to do this on a tuba rather than a euph/btone. With a euph, it's harder to artificially reproduce the low frequencies and punch needed for the tuba part, but with a small mouthpiece and some determination, you can, with a tuba, make it sound like a euph/btone pretty easily.

A small-med size tuba and some experimentation with mouthpieces works.

Here's an audio example to show it can be done -- An Irish folk singer I worked for wanted a "hometown gazebo band" sound on his record. He wanted an additional separate baritone part in addition to the tuba part, so instead of bringing in another player or another horn, I simply slapped a smaller mouthpiece into my 4/4 tuba and had at it. The result is relatively convincing.

http://www.tubajoe.com/misc/donieexcerpt.mp3" target="_blank

[fufufini]

Hi... O/P here.. ended up with a late 70's King 2280 on Ebay ... fits the bill nicely. The Jin Bao route would likely have worked out too for a few 100 dollars more.