Cool old King 4v BBb Sousie!

[Trevor Bjorklund]

I recently picked up this beast: an H.N. White King. Its serial number, 756xx, puts it between 1920-1925. The daughter of its owner couldn't tell me much about it other than her dad had played it in a marching band between 1946-47 (man must have been a giant: this thing is seriously HEAVY). Although it was quite dusty, all the pistons were fairly smooth and all except the 1st valve bottom slide moved. The outside bow guard was halfway off so I just put a torch to it and let it come off all the way. It has a weird patch near the bell collar but there doesn't feel to be any major problem under it (no obvious holes or anything). There is an unfortunate dent in a hard-to-reach place between the bell collar and inside loop and it is missing one bell screw mount. Other than that it appears to be in great shape. The bell collar is 6.5" and the bell is 26"

King-4v-souise-1.jpg

King-4v-souise-2.jpg

King-4v-souise-5.jpg

So: can anyone tell me
a) what model number this is?
b) how can I tell if there is any lacquer on it? (the color of the patina appears to me to be under the lacquer but I want to clean it without hurting anything)
c) where can I find the correct bell screw mount?
d) how cool is this?!

[Trevor Bjorklund]

Finally, check out the cool stand that someone built for it! It must weigh about 40 lbs alone.

sousie-stand.jpg

[Dan Schultz]

Looks like a model 1251 that's pictured on the H N White website except with a larger bell. The neck and bits appear to be Conn.

The horn was probably satin silver with a gold-washed bell. Any polishing at all of the bell interior will remove any traces of gold that remain. As far as the rest of the horn is concerned... rubbing off the remaining silver plate might make it look better.

Interesting find!

[imperialbari]

Congratulations! I hope this one ends up as a good player. The exterior tells a history of usage and should be left as is, when cleaned of dirt that may smudge your clothes.

Klaus

[Tom Coffey]

Great post--thanks for the pictures!

[Trevor Bjorklund]

Thanks All!

After lubricating and a very light cleaning, I've decided that the horn needs to be seen by someone more, um, professional than me. There's something funny going on with the second valve but I'm gonna let the boys in Oakland (Best Instrument Repair) tinker around with it/set it up/put the bow guard back on/perhaps push out any easy-to-reach dents.

Ian - I think you are right: 1251 with a 26" bell.
Dan - if there was silver plating, it's long, long gone. Is that the kind of thing that comes off on its own or would have to have been rubbed off? I ask because there appears to be none in hard-to-reach places.
Klaus - probably not going to try to polish (or pay someone else to polish) it up... for now. I kind of like the color. Also, I am way too lazy to do all the nooks and crannies.
Joe - well, according to Ian's ads... I'll take a fourth valve for $20, please! Heck, for that price, I'll take several.

Anyone have an old bell screw mount lying around?
Also, anyone want to trade a Conn neck for an old King neck?

[Dan Schultz]

... Anyone have an old bell screw mount lying around?
Also, anyone want to trade a Conn neck for an old King neck?

I probably have a flange and screw I can give up if you can post a picture of exactly what you need.

A Conn neck has a .688" diameter tenon while the King neck is .654" diameter. If the Conn fits well and doesn't leak, someone has probably changed the lower neckpipe/receiver and you need to stick with the Conn or plan on changing the receiver, too.

[ralphbsz]

After lubricating and a very light cleaning, I've decided that the horn needs to be seen by someone more, um, professional than me. There's something funny going on with the second valve but I'm gonna let the boys in Oakland (Best Instrument Repair) tinker around with it/set it up/put the bow guard back on/perhaps push out any easy-to-reach dents.

Consider giving Bridgepoint Music (a.k.a. James Manganaro) in Menlo Park a call. It's the only music repair place in the bay area that is actually owned and operated by a tuba player. They also have a tuba-sized ultrasonic cleaning tank (which is a bit rare).

Congratulations on the nice instrument.

[Trevor Bjorklund]

The mysterious neck. Someone soldered something on there.

King-Conn-neck.jpg

The other end, however, has been scored in one place and cut in another. It does seem to fit quite snuggly, though. Don't know how to check for leaks (soapy water, like a gas grill?).

neck-shank-close-up.jpg

And finally, is it normal to have overlapping braces? The "rectangular" one (bottom) looks not-original. Of course, if I live to be 90 years old, I'll probably have some not-original parts as well.

Receiver-close-up.jpg

Ralph: I would love to take the horn to James. He's a great tech (and a fine tuba player) and an old friend. Problem is getting down there: 1.5 hours with no traffic (rare) and up to 3 hours with traffic (typical) each way!

[Dan Schultz]

The neck is original Conn except for the tenon. The tenon appears to have been modified (made smaller) to fit the King receiver. The braces appear original. They could have just been applied sloppily at the factory or by a repairman later in life.