"Tightening up" a very open horn

[MartyNeilan]

For the past couple decades, it seems like everyone has wanted the most open horn possible. However, it is also important to strike the right balance. My massive BART project is an extremely free blowing large tuba. Last week I changed out the receiver insert to an adapter I made out of an old Sousaphone bit. I likewise started using the American shank for my Grand Orchestral mouthpiece instead of the Euro shank I had been using the past couple months. That small amount of "tightening up" was just what the horn needed. After playing on it for a week, I have decided not to go back to the Euro receiver/Euro shank configuration. Sometimes, bigger is not always better.
Marty "who has also played many horns that had the opposite problem"

[iiipopes]

Agreed.

[bort]

How is that BART project coming along anyway? Is all of the major work done on it now?

I also thought you had sold it due to some hardship or another, so I'm very happy to see you've still got it!

[MartyNeilan]

How is that BART project coming along anyway? Is all of the major work done on it now?

I also thought you had sold it due to some hardship or another, so I'm very happy to see you've still got it!

Like my 96 Roadmaster Wagon, it is a perpetual work in progress but modifications are done gradually to never have it down for more than a day at a time, as both are my primary workhorses in their respective duties and used nearly daily. I still need to finish the 5th valve, but the horn plays fine as a 4 banger and that remains low on my priority list, I keep changing other things first. With the first and fourth slides easily accessible, all valves vented, and slides cut to accommodate intonation idiosyncrasies, I really haven't missed the fifth very much. The rotor is already inline and adds a modicum of much needed resistance, but I won't build the plumbing out of my pile of spare kaiser tubing for it until everything else is 100% situated.
I had it up for sale for a few hours last year when I ran into a last minute shortfall when closing on a house (nothing like being asked for a few more thousand the day before closing because of a miscalculation on their part) but found a financial workaround. The horn has its minor quirks, but is overall one of the best sounding tubas I have ever played. Every time I bring a smaller horn, people always ask for this one instead.

[TheHatTuba]

Could you post a pic of the receiver insert? Sounds like a nice solution and easy way to add resistance.

[MartyNeilan]

Could you post a pic of the receiver insert? Sounds like a nice solution and easy way to add resistance.

The original mouthpiece receiver on that century old tuba is big enough to put your thumb completely into. The biggest shank mouthpiece, even a standard Alexander mouthpiece, would swim inside it. It may roughly be comparable to the old Alex 164 Kaiser receivers. What I made would not be useful for a normal Euro shank tuba. Vladimir at Dillons had made an insert for when I bought the horn, but that insert had been opened up a little and fits what we would call a modern Euro shank perfectly (I am still keeping that insert.). Unfortunately I can't show you my insert as it is pressed and soldered into the horn. If you have ever seen an adapter that lets you play a small shank trombone mouthpiece on a large shank trombone, that will give you an idea.
I just found it interesting how going from the Euro insert/Euro shank mouthpiece to the slightly smaller opening American insert/American shank mouthpiece made a noticeably positive difference on the tuba. Since it was the exact same mouthpiece just with two different sized shanks, and since both inserts were roughly the same length, and since with either setup the total distance from mouthpiece rim to first valve was virtually identical, this was a fairly controlled experiment with only one variable. Normally, when switching mouthpiece shanks, the receiver remains the same, so the horn is slightly lengthened/shortened and the "gap" is increased/decreased. Switching the inserts eliminated those other variables.
A similar experiment would probably be to play a horn with an AGR and do the same thing, changing out the two different sized receives and matching the appropriate shanks to them.

[Tom]

If I recall correctly, your tuba has a 2165 piston valve section on it, yes?

So you used the original leadpipe and receiver with the pistons?

Have you ever looked into a 45 SLP leadpipe conversion, etc.?

[MartyNeilan]

If I recall correctly, your tuba has a 2165 piston valve section on it, yes?

So you used the original leadpipe and receiver with the pistons?

Have you ever looked into a 45 SLP leadpipe conversion, etc.?

The original leadpipe was cut to where it fit the pistons (.750 bore plus the outside pipe thickness) and then rebent with pitch.
I have considered exactly what you suggest, but between the cost of the leadpipe and receiver, and having it professionally bent and installed (don't want to mess up a many $$$ pipe) keeps it off the table for the time being, at least until everything else is finished first. I would probably suggest that to a potential buyer if I ever were to sell the horn, however it does seem to work well in its current configuration.

[bigbob]

. My massive BART project is an extremely free blowing large tuba. Hi Marty do you have a couple of pictures you might share?? also What do you mean by "free blowing"?? Does that mean that it requires more air to play it?? BB