Edgy (Marching Band) Sousaphone Sound

[Tuboss2]

Maybe so. I was like totally convinced what I as Doing before was gonna get me that loudness I wanted. Then I just tried out stryx advice, and goodness gracious my ears were ringing a bit afterwards. Like I said, I am going to keep on practice that. And really work on keep my Oral cavity really really open and push a crap load of air.
I mean, wow, I really thought I was going to go deaf.

[TubaOrpheus]

[Untersatz]

What never seems to go out of style is good tone and in tune playing with attention to dynamics.

+1

[Untersatz]

Holy crap. I did what you said(open teeth and throat). And I used a crap load of air and the sound that came out was astoundingly loud. I messed around a little bit and played some stand tunes with open teeth and throat open and was amazed with the sheer amount of volume I was producing, no edge too. Look, stryx, I'm sorry if I came off like an ungrateful d*** to you. But wow, that was crazy loud. I am going to keep on messing around with that till I am getting right. I do notice that am having to use more air to keep that intensity and volume up at FF and higher. But that's ok, I'll get used to using more air.

I have heard some really great tuba players play EXTREMELY LOUD !!! I'm talking at least ffff and the tone was clear & pure. Not edgy or blatty at all. It has more to do with a strong embouchure & LOTS of air (as in a higher volume of air) not blowing harder & not trying to blow your lips outta the bell of the sousaphone. I think one of the other main reasons that the sound in some of these "sousaphone wars" videos has them sounding like a bunch of kazoos, is because they are playing so high, way out of the range of any "bass instrument" and overblowing to the point of a distorted sound. How can this be a desirable sound in any band, for a tuba?

[Tuboss2]

Holy crap. I did what you said(open teeth and throat). And I used a crap load of air and the sound that came out was astoundingly loud. I messed around a little bit and played some stand tunes with open teeth and throat open and was amazed with the sheer amount of volume I was producing, no edge too. Look, stryx, I'm sorry if I came off like an ungrateful d*** to you. But wow, that was crazy loud. I am going to keep on messing around with that till I am getting right. I do notice that am having to use more air to keep that intensity and volume up at FF and higher. But that's ok, I'll get used to using more air.

I have heard some really great tuba players play EXTREMELY LOUD !!! I'm talking at least ffff and the tone was clear & pure. Not edgy or blatty at all. It has more to do with a strong embouchure & LOTS of air (as in a higher volume of air) not blowing harder & not trying to blow your lips outta the bell of the sousaphone. I think one of the other main reasons that the sound in some of these "sousaphone wars" videos has them sounding like a bunch of kazoos, is because they are playing so high, way out of the range of any "bass instrument" and overblowing to the point of a distorted sound. How can this be a desirable sound in any band, for a tuba?

Well, that is what sousaphone battles are about: to really show off what a Sousa can really do instead of the om-pa bullsh**. That's why most of them play extreamly high or extreamly low(which is what I prefer to do instead of high). A Sousa can do a lot of things is the main lesson I've gotten from this tuba battles. It can sound raspy...like a human voice, can sound really mysterious, and can also sound like 1000 feathers. Lots of things. And if you got the skill, you can be louder then a trumpet, despite the octave differences.

And stryx, I'll work on that as well today. I really didn't get a full chance to really excute your advice because I had been practicing for 3 hours before I tried it. I will be fully practicing on that, and also taking in huge amounts of air.

And another thing, this question is for anyone who can offer me an answer: I find it extreamly difficult to play loud on music that is fast paced due to the amount of breaths needing to be taken in order to play it, anyways to really be more efficient, or would the only ideal advice be just be softer?

I'll have a little summary of how my Practice session goes later today on this thread.

[Tuboss2]

Good practice session. Really making good use of my air and really pushing my sound past my sousaphone bell. Takes a lot of work but what comes it is awesome.
Real test is going to be how I sound outside. That's for sure. Because marching is outdoors so that's where it counts. Overall real good session.

[Untersatz]

Good practice session. Really making good use of my air and really pushing my sound past my sousaphone bell. Takes a lot of work but what comes it is awesome.
Real test is going to be how I sound outside. That's for sure. Because marching is outdoors so that's where it counts. Overall real good session.

Sounds like your intentions were genuine in asking for opinions about what we thought of the sound you were after. And even though many of us here on this board did not approve of some of the edgy, blatty & overblown sounds in some of the videos that you had us sample, it seems that you took some of the best advice that was offered to help improve your sound. Now it looks like you're headed in the right direction with a clear & powerful sound (with good tone). Remember that when you play in a band, you just have to play YOUR part to the best of your ability, you can't expect to set the world on fire with the sound coming out of your horn. But as an ensemble, if enough of the players are doing the best they can to produce the same kind of sound that you are...........then that's when the band sounds good as a group. And it is perfectly alright to play LOUD when it's called for, but you also need to learn how to play softly when it's required. Good luck with improving your tone & playing skills & remember there is no substitute for LOTS of practice.

[taylorbeaty]

I remember in high school, a guy that just moved schools was trying to start playing tuba again. When he asked our band director why I could play louder than he could, the director simply stated, "Well, he's better than you." and walked off. I'm not a good player, but, as many of you have said, it all comes down to air and tone production.

[Tuboss2]

Good practice session. Really making good use of my air and really pushing my sound past my sousaphone bell. Takes a lot of work but what comes it is awesome.
Real test is going to be how I sound outside. That's for sure. Because marching is outdoors so that's where it counts. Overall real good session.

Sounds like your intentions were genuine in asking for opinions about what we thought of the sound you were after. And even though many of us here on this board did not approve of some of the edgy, blatty & overblown sounds in some of the videos that you had us sample, it seems that you took some of the best advice that was offered to help improve your sound. Now it looks like you're headed in the right direction with a clear & powerful sound (with good tone). Remember that when you play in a band, you just have to play YOUR part to the best of your ability, you can't expect to set the world on fire with the sound coming out of your horn. But as an ensemble, if enough of the players are doing the best they can to produce the same kind of sound that you are...........then that's when the band sounds good as a group. And it is perfectly alright to play LOUD when it's called for, but you also need to learn how to play softly when it's required. Good luck with improving your tone & playing skills & remember there is no substitute for LOTS of practice.

Definitely. As I said, I am going to keep working on it. One of these days before I have to go back for band camp, I am going to to take it outside and really experiment. Of course in a place where I don't distract anyone haha. But I am really interested into figuring how this would carry outside, and figure out if I need to change things or not embouchure wise.

I did also realize working my low range helps my volume as well because I'm forcing my self to use more air.

[Tuboss2]

For sure. I make sure that I'm Doing this with a tuner to make sure I'm not blowing pitches out of tune.

[Untersatz]

The other important part to this equation is to play in tune. This will require the use of a tuner. Without getting into physics, the sound is bigger (louder) when a group plays in tune.

+1

[imperialbari]

If you overblow a brass instrument, using a tuner won't help you. Your overtones will too much out of alignment to make anything sound in tune anyway.

Klaus

[Untersatz]

If you overblow a brass instrument, using a tuner won't help you. Your overtones will too much out of alignment to make anything sound in tune anyway.

Klaus

"High quality" instruments are usually built in such a manner that their individual notes do not create disharmonious overtones. In fact, the flared end of a brass instrument is not to make the instrument sound louder, but to correct for tube length “end effects” that would otherwise make the overtones significantly different from integer harmonics.

[imperialbari]

If you overblow a brass instrument, using a tuner won't help you. Your overtones will too much out of alignment to make anything sound in tune anyway.

Klaus

"High quality" instruments are usually built in such a manner that their individual notes do not create disharmonious overtones. In fact, the flared end of a brass instrument is not to make the instrument sound louder, but to correct for tube length “end effects” that would otherwise make the overtones significantly different from integer harmonics.

Sounds more wonderful than convincing.

Klaus

[Untersatz]

Sounds more wonderful than convincing.

Klaus, that was just some scientific jargon I found on Wikipedia, but it got me to page 15 !

[imperialbari]

Yes it is in Wiki, but not even Wiki says it goes for overblown brasses.

My first teachers taught sound being a result of good intonation. The revelation came with the teacher saying that if sound isn't good intonation doesn't really matter. Because good sound is aligned and balanced overtone patterns.

Klaus

[Untersatz]

The revelation came with the teacher saying that if sound isn't good intonation doesn't really matter. Because good sound is aligned and balanced overtone patterns.

Klaus, I couldn't agree with you more!
That is (or at least it should be) the very foundation for what we do. Without good tone & intonation, what is left?
Who wants to hear a shitty sounding, out of tune tuba???

[Tuboss2]

So, if I am playing stupid loud. But I'm in tube as well..does that work?

[Untersatz]

So, if I am playing stupid loud. But I'm in tube as well..does that work?

"Stupid Loud"
Don't think that really needs an answer, does it?

[Untersatz]

Avant garde composers would probably love this new, fantastic, edgy sound.

Ian, I think you're probably right about that