Pedal D on Mira 186 BBb

[jmerring]

Could someone tell me the preferred/best fingering for the pedal D 5 ledger lines under bass clef? It comes up in the tuba part of "Raiders of the Lost Ark." My tuner can't help me and I think I am playing a false tone to get it. I have tried 2nd valve and also 1-2-3-4 with the a hefty pull of the first slide, but again; can't realy tell if I am hitting it. As you all probably know, I'm quite deaf and have to depend on my tuner, if at all possible.

[Charlie Goodman]

Shouldn't the "real" tone fingering be 2-3-4, or something along that line?

[mTaUrBkA]

I play a mirafone 186.....and using 2-3-4 works great for that D.

[Matt G]

2-3-4 was almost always right on the screws for low E on my Mirafone 188 and low D on my 186.

Note: If you are really overblowing the note, then no valve combination will work. Relax into the low D as much as possible. I know from personal experience that this is where 'Fones tend to get a little stuffy, but once you get used to the stuffiness to lean against, you can make those low notes sound lke the ripping apart of sheet metal.

FWIW, low Db is 1-3-4 with a good pull on the 1st valve and low C is 1-2-3-4 with a mighty pull one the 1st valve and possibly a pull on the 3rd valve slide (or 4th if you prefer). Low B natural is accessible only through false tones (2-3) unless you have a 5 valve 'Fone (quite rare).

Best of luck.

[CJ Krause]

***

[dmmorris]

This note has not been too much of a problem for my BBb plumber's nightmare made by B&S !



There are other possibilities, but D=234 works nicely also.

[jmerring]

I am truly impressed by that nightmare horn! It looks to be very old (6 valves - BBB?!).

[tubeast]

Yes, very impressing. That should save you a whole lot of slide pulling.
By the way, I´m kind of confused, and maybe somebody ´d be so kind to clear this up: what are the "pedal notes" ? is there a definition ? In my understanding those depend on the pitch of your horn and are the ones below the partial that is an octave below its next neighbor. On an F-tuba, that would make it the F on the 5th line below the staff, on the BBb it would be the B beven below that. Am I correct on this one ?
kind regards
Hans

[Rick Denney]

By the way, I´m kind of confused, and maybe somebody ´d be so kind to clear this up: what are the "pedal notes" ?

It's a confusing term, being borrowed as it is from organ technology. On an organ, a pedal note is one that is played with the foot, which hardly applies to tubas except when the instrument needs to be kicked down the stairs.

Most people try to define it as the fundamental tones of the bugle, which for a BBb tuba would start at BBb and go down from there. But many people seem to use it to define the notes below the second harmonic of the fourth valve.

Mostly we interpret this fuzzy terminology by context. In this case, I suspect nobody was really expecting anybody to play a true fundamental D, which is probably not possible in any case without those six valves, and not probable by mortals. Thus, everyone assumed that "pedal D" meant the D just above the BBb.

And then there's the argument about what the fundamental tone really is, with some highly qualified opinions that the false tones are actually the true fundamental. If that's the case, the low D would be a "pedal", but only when played on the second valve.

I think we'd be better off by defining a note according to its partial. Thus, the D in question would be a second-partial D played with the valves 2-3-4 or equivalent. But the term "pedal" is firmly entrenched, even though it's definition is not precise.

Rick "for whom a discussion of pedal notes is purely an academic exercise" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

I think we'd be better off by defining a note according to its partial. Thus, the D in question would be a second-partial D played with the valves 2-3-4 or equivalent. But the term "pedal" is firmly entrenched, even though it's definition is not precise.

...or we could all adopt a standard musical termiology and call a note by its name. The open Bb just below the second ledger below the staff is Bb1; the C just above it is C2. That 440 tuning note is A4. The octave boundaries lie at C.

If that's not satisfactory, how about double gamma ut?

[Rick Denney]

186 5 valve BBb Miraphone chart has 45 or 135 as the fingerings for D
It is one of my best Tubas that I have had since the 70's

That is, of course, with the fifth valve tuned to an approximate 2-3 combination. Current Miraphone models tune the fifth valve to the more common (I said "more common", not "better") long whole tone.

But 2-3-4 will work reasonably well on a four-valve instrument. It's actually one of the better notes in that range with just four valves available.

Rick "answering the question about the definition of 'pedal' only" Denney

[Rick Denney]

...or we could all adopt a standard musical termiology and call a note by its name. The open Bb just below the second ledger below the staff is Bb1; the C just above it is C2. That 440 tuning note is A4. The octave boundaries lie at C.

If that's not satisfactory, how about double gamma ut?

Yes, we could. But there are several different systems that have come up over the years, and frankly I can't keep the system in my head. But I always know what a 2nd-partial low D is.

Rick "the good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

Yes, we could. But there are several different systems that have come up over the years, and frankly I can't keep the system in my head. But I always know what a 2nd-partial low D is.

Aw, Rick, your head's big enough to hold two or even three of said systems...

The old Helmholtz system used either doubled-up letters or Roman numeral super- and subscripts for the low octaves, but still kept breaks at C; the modern "scientific" notation simply substitutes a letter-number system--and is incidentally the same system used by MIDI, so it's a good bet it'll be with us for a long time. It's very simple and straightforward.

See:

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory1.htm

(That's lesson ONE on the Dolmetsch music theory online course.)

It's well and good to be talking about partials, but things start to get nasty again when we begin talking about resonances below the second partial.

[Rick Denney]

Aw, Rick, your head's big enough to hold two or even three of said systems...

Oooh.

Rick "denying both the text and the subtext" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

lol and in my theory 1 class, we used c' as middle c, c as the c below it, C as the one below that, CC.....CCC......etc.....

An outdated and very clumsy system. Quick, how many notes lie between CCC and c''''?

[Joe Baker]

How 'bout "~73 Hz"?
________________________
Joe Baker, who is working on voicemail tone detection software today, defining tones only by Hz (and no, it's NOT for a telemarketing application...)