King 2341 owners past and present.

[tofu]

[sloan]

Except for annoying sticking 1st valves on some of the most hastily-built new-style ones, all of them really seem to work.

The most noble-sounding ones, to me, are the 2341 tubas that were the last generation of well-built two-piece tubas. I believe they reached their peak at that point.

The current fixed-bell version offers amazing better-than-188 intonation. They're just usually not quite put together as well as the Seeburg/Magnavox/H.N. White era tubas were put together.

Joe is obviously biased by the amount of time he has spent with mine.

The OP seems to be looking for those who had a 2341 and then moved on. How about those of us who did the necessary screening work to get a *good* new 2341 and have not felt the need to go anywhere?
My 2341 remains my "go to" instrument (I have others - but I tend to view them as "special purpose" - the 2341 is the one that's most often in the back of my car.

Why? Primarily the intonation. It was "tuned at the factory". Second - the most sound per pound. It handles smaller than it looks, and plays much bigger than it looks.

But...you do need to personally select the particular instrument when you buy. I probably played at least 10 copies, over several months, before finding "the one". I don't claim to have a particularly good set of ears - but at least two people who do have repeatedly commented (well beyond the limits of politeness) that mine is "a good one".

No, it's not for sale. You can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Yes, it's a BBb. You got a problem with that?

[Untersatz]

Why? Primarily the intonation. It was "tuned at the factory". Second - the most sound per pound. It handles smaller than it looks, and plays much bigger than it looks.

+100

[Uncle Markie]

I have owned 3 King tubas over the years. A 1240 from the 1920s that the factory rebuilt for me in the 1970s - which I used for everything that came my way for years with both bells, a 1241 that I used on the Band of America and other jobs but eventually sold, and now I have a 2341 which finally plays very well after several modifications - it was one the first of the current model. I sold the old 1240 when it simply rotted out from the inside - just played it to death. That instrument had exceptional intonation, but because it was so old the valves were a constant problem. The 1241 (1970s version) had intonation problems and I had too many horns sitting around at the time so it was sold.

It took a lot of work to get the current 2341 to play to my liking, including changing out the receiver (too big for normal American shank mouthpieces), cutting the third valve slide, and cutting the second valve slide, and adding the elongated ferrules which are now part of the current production instrument. A lot of work but worth it.

I love my Martin, but it weighs 30 lbs and is really too big for a quintet; I like having a top action horn around especially with page turns, and because the Martin's core of sound is uniquely powerful.

The King is still a great choice for a "one horn that does it all". I've used it orchestras, jazz bands, quintets and concert bands. More than enough power to hold my own - I work alone most of the time these days, not in a section unfortunately - and the instrument slots predictably, etc. Although educated as a slide pulling tuba player, I find I don't have to do much of that with this horn - I pull out the first slide only and generally that's for the A-flat below the staff. The 4th valve functions pretty much as an "octave key"; I use the 4th for low F, C and the 2-4 for B natural. The rest of the time the horn fingers like a sousaphone with the open notes dead on. Projection on Kings is deceptively penetrating; get in tune and they always hear you out front - I've always attributed this to the "just big enough" .687 bore. This one has the best valves of any horn I've ever owned. With nylon valves guides it's light, fast and no "clicks".

I should add that I'm a real fussbudget about playing in tune; I despise horns that play flat. When I was coming up as a freelancer in NYC in the late 1960s it was commonplace to have to tune to A=442 because some jingle producers thought it sounded "brighter"! Plus there are certain lead trumpeters that will play sharp to THAT! Pulling a note DOWN to tune is a lot less tiring than trying to "lip up". This is why I have always advocated cutting valve tubing on a horn with good open tones when valved combinations are consistently flat.

Mark Heter

[Jerryleejr]

The OP seems to be looking for those who had a 2341 and then moved on. How about those of us who did the necessary screening work to get a *good* new 2341 and have not felt the need to go anywhere?
My 2341 remains my "go to" instrument (I have others - but I tend to view them as "special purpose" - the 2341 is the one that's most often in the back of car.

I guess I should have rephrased, I was just wondering if a lot of people found the 2341 to be an interim tuba to tide them over on the quest for the perfect tuba. Either because it was a financial decision or needing time to discover what they truly wanted in a horn etc... Not disqualifying the king at all, but at my level of experience (or lack there of) I didn't want to base my choices on $$$ alone to find I would have been better off going a different route. Trying not to get caught up in the oooohhh and ahhhs of new and shiny or Brand X. A good analogy I use when shopping for anything is why buy an 18-wheeler to do the work of half ton pick up. Yes those one ton mega cab duallies are amazing but do you need to spend 50k when 20k will get it done...

JJ

[EdFirth]

I got my first King in 1982 from Norm Bartold in Woodland Hills, Ca. and played it in just about every band in New Orleans up and down Bourbon St., the riverboats, and even with Pete Fountain's band. Then I traded it for a York four valve top banger which ended up with Brian Fredricksen. I bought another one when I got to Central Florida and used it six days a week at the Rat in a show band at Epcot as well as the Holiday Splendor Orchestra and the Brevard Symphony among other venues.Sold it to finance Connie Weldon's former five valve, detachable bell Marzan but aftera few years bought another Kingform the sound man at Rosie O'Grady's and had it tricked out by Roy Lawler to include top pull 1st slide,loop removed from the 3rd slide, custom leadpipe, and of course, a valve job.Played it from 85' to 89' when I found a silver one that was quite a bit heavier, in almost perfect shape,ant the price was Very right.I still have it as well as a one piece bell one that was ,I think, from the same run as Lew's.It's satin silver.The biggest difference, to me, is that the tall one projects better and the short one is more fun because due to the short bell you hear yourself better.My tall one has the22' and 19' raincatchers as well as the bell front.I also use a King Monster rotary tuba for epic loud stuff and a 3 valve King Eb for high parts.Over the years I've had Conns, 25 and 36 J, a Holton that was like the parts used for Jake's York, lots of Mirafones,lots of Cerveny's and a Meinl Weston 2155, to name a few.But I ended up with the Kings, as well as a Conn 36J and a Martin Mammoth.I guess it depends on your personal taste in sound and the groups you're working in.Ed

[Lew]

I guess I should have rephrased, I was just wondering if a lot of people found the 2341 to be an interim tuba to tide them over on the quest for the perfect tuba. Either because it was a financial decision or needing time to discover what they truly wanted in a horn etc... Not disqualifying the king at all, but at my level of experience (or lack there of) I didn't want to base my choices on $$$ alone to find I would have been better off going a different route. Trying not to get caught up in the oooohhh and ahhhs of new and shiny or Brand X. A good analogy I use when shopping for anything is why buy an 18-wheeler to do the work of half ton pick up. Yes those one ton mega cab duallies are amazing but do you need to spend 50k when 20k will get it done...

JJ

Based on this it appears that you are asking if buying a King 2341 would be a good choice for someone for a tuba to buy to plan to use indefinitely. If you are an amateur and if you have been playing enough to be able to tell if the specific horn that you are interested in plays well enough for you, then the King 2341 is a perfectly viable "permanent" purchase. Assuming that you can tell if it is a good one, and they do vary in quality, you can spend a lot more money and not really have any difference that you would notice.

[Jerryleejr]

I guess I should have rephrased, I was just wondering if a lot of people found the 2341 to be an interim tuba to tide them over on the quest for the perfect tuba. Either because it was a financial decision or needing time to discover what they truly wanted in a horn etc... Not disqualifying the king at all, but at my level of experience (or lack there of) I didn't want to base my choices on $$$ alone to find I would have been better off going a different route. Trying not to get caught up in the oooohhh and ahhhs of new and shiny or Brand X. A good analogy I use when shopping for anything is why buy an 18-wheeler to do the work of half ton pick up. Yes those one ton mega cab duallies are amazing but do you need to spend 50k when 20k will get it done...

JJ

Based on this it appears that you are asking if buying a King 2341 would be a good choice for someone for a tuba to buy to plan to use indefinitely. If you are an amateur and if you have been playing enough to be able to tell if the specific horn that you are interested in plays well enough for you, then the King 2341 is a perfectly viable "permanent" purchase. Assuming that you can tell if it is a good one, and they do vary in quality, you can spend a lot more money and not really have any difference that you would notice.

I think that is more towards what I am getting at, balancing want vs need and just making sure I get the best bang for the buck...or blat for the buck so to speak. No professional aspirations just wanting to play for the sake of enjoyment/recreation on something that will sustain that enjoyment for many years...

JJ

[tokuno]

. . . to find I would have been better off going a different route. . .
JJ

It's not a marriage; one can swap out at nominal cost (or even a little profit), with a wise initial purchase.

For an enjoyable playing experience and the option to flip reasonably quickly to purchase the (next) dream horn, then any of the name-brand standbys seems like good "bang for the buck", i.e. a safe place to stash cash and support a positive playing experience, including the King 2341 old or new model (or Miraphone 186, or etc.,). Bought used, whether or not the path eventually leads to something different (even if only the same model, but new & shiny beckons), then one is well-positioned to cash out and trade up.

[royjohn]

tokuno wrote:

Bought used, whether or not the path eventually leads to something different (even if only the same model, but new & shiny beckons), then one is well-positioned to cash out and trade up.

I think this is the important point. Some research is justified and playing the specific horn before a purchase is advisable, but one can overthink this thing. Few are still playing their first horn. Tastes change and possibly the budget opens up or a great deal comes along. So one should choose a good horn and get playing and be positioned not to lose money if one trades up.

[sloan]

The only danger in buying a USED 2341 is that the really good ones don't get put up for sale...

[royjohn]

Sloan wrote:

The only danger in buying a USED 2341 is that the really good ones don't get put up for sale...

But that is true of most all the good used tubas. . .and it's only partially true. Folks do die or give up playing or move on to another type of tuba. Check out the comments of "I never should have sold it. . ." And some of the not so good ones can be resurrected. In the end buying used is a much smarter move than buying new and having to deal with current manufacturing defects and do the initial tweaking as well as taking the depreciation hit. . .

Also, I'd consider an old 1241 too, but perhaps that's another thread. . .

[tofu]

[Jerryleejr]

It's not a marriage; one can swap out at nominal cost (or even a little profit), with a wise initial purchase.

Lol,
Not really looking at it that way, however in my experience in this case I am going to have make do with whatever I decide on for a few years, and if money gets tight it's gonna be one of the first things to go such is life...and yes on the flip side if the opportunity comes along for a change so be it..

JJ

[tofu]

[Jerryleejr]

A lot of food for thought I really appreciate it. And I am trying to find a place with a decent selection to try out. Seems 8 hrs is the shortest drive to Durham and then dillions is 14hrs, 8 if I can get there while I'm in WV. Which also puts baltimore 6hrs away. I also am watching for conferences and trade shows as well. Ill keep ya posted.

JJ

[Lew]

Since it sounds like you are close to the East coast, if you can wait till January and if you can get to the DC area at that time, you can go to the Army Band conference and try out a bunch of horns from a bunch of dealers. The only problem is that trying out horns in the elephant room at the conference is somewhat problematic due to how difficult it is to actually hear yourself.

[Jerryleejr]

Since it sounds like you are close to the East coast, if you can wait till January and if you can get to the DC area at that time, you can go to the Army Band conference and try out a bunch of horns from a bunch of dealers. The only problem is that trying out horns in the elephant room at the conference is somewhat problematic due to how difficult it is to actually hear yourself.

It's on my list, I tried last year but couldn't get off work I'm hoping the dates will work out this time.

JJ

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I got my first King in 1982...has the 22' and 19' raincatchers as well as the bell front...

Ed,

Have you ever done much, in the way of comparisons "out in the hall", of the 22" vs. 19" bells? I am curious about the effect of the smaller bell.

Regards,

Larry

[royjohn]

tofu wrote:

I bought mine new, detailed it to exactly how I needed it to play, have owned it for 11 years and can easily sell it today for about 20% more than what I've got in it.

I"m curious about what horn this is and whether this is often the case. I would think, as I stated, that most of the time one would have to depreciate a new horn and sell it for less than the purchase price. Certainly it's possible to buy a great horn which is then taken out of production, so that the used examples are in great demand, but do used horns appreciate in most cases?