BRITISH BRASS BANDS

[Dan Schultz]

In the USA how many of the brass bands use British style compensated Eb and BBb basses (tubas)?

When I see pictures, front action tubas seem to be most common. I wonder how that affects the tone?

I'm sure there are many who own their own horns. But... I only know of one personally. Fountain City Brass Band (Kansas City) is a VERY GOOD band and their claim to fame is the fact that they have a complete matched set of bass instruments. http://fcbb.net/index.html

[LCH3]

Forty years ago I played trumpet and now I play Eb bass on a Besson 982, a compensating 3+1 configuration. I learned the bass clef fingerings which was not difficult going from trumpet to Eb tuba. I generally receive bass clef tuba music in the groups I play with.

My first brass band experience was this past summer at James Gourlay's International Brass Band Camp in Wheeling, WV. It was the first time I was issued music specifically for Eb tuba and in treble clef. With the trumpet background, treble clef was no problem. We had 3 Bb tubas and 2 Eb tubas. The whole group - supported by some Pittsburgh River City Brass players - produced an awesome sound and it was an awesome experience. Many who were regulars in the brass band scene told their stories of once in a brass band it became their main activity. It was also quite an experience having James Gourlay and David Childs as your coach! The brass band camp is scheduled again in July 2014. Here's a link with some videos of the group: https://www.facebook.com/InternationalB ... WheelingWv" target="_blank" target="_blank

Thanks.

[bbocaner]

In the USA how many of the brass bands use British style compensated Eb and BBb basses (tubas)?

When I see pictures, front action tubas seem to be most common. I wonder how that affects the tone?

A few do, particularly the bands that are doing some competition internationally. It does affect the tone, as the British-style tubas do have a particular sound. But that's small compared to cornet players using shallow Bach mouthpieces and getting a bright sound, the whole band having the right sound in their head helps a lot and few USA bands really get it.

This music is the state of the art in brass playing. The new test pieces that are composed every year just get harder and harder and the standard of individual playing and ensemble in the top bands like Black Dyke, Foden's, Cory... well, it's just unreal.

With regards to reading treble clef: it is my opinion that a competent musician should be comfortable reading in any clef with any transposition. It's not that hard.

[mjrctuba]

I'd like to share my experience on this subject because I've just been invited to play with the Cincinnati Brass Band and have been reading treble clef Bb tuba parts for the first time.

My first instrument was the tuba. I have been reading bass clef tuba for just over thirty years now. I took music theory, piano class, etc., so I can read treble clef and can even transpose parts on paper, but transposing on the fly is not something I've ever had to do.

Nervous about the treble clef parts, I worked with a beginner trumpet book before the first rehearsal to practice reading the clef and transposing. On my CC tuba, my primary horn, I really had a lot of trouble sight reading, something I'm pretty good at in bass clef. It occurred to me to try playing my BBb tuba with CC fingerings. That worked pretty well. I wasn't hitting all the notes but I was doing a lot better than I was with the CC horn. I did notice that I had to get used to aiming lower for the notes than my brain wanted.

At this point, I had to decide whether or not to show up to my first meeting with the band with an inferior, worn BBb tuba or show up with my professional horn. I decided it would be better to have lesser equipment and play the music than to have a great horn and miss most of the notes.

I've had two rehearsals with the band now and I'm really enjoying it. The people in the tuba section have been great to me. Like eeflattuba said at the beginning of this thread, it's very cool to have contrasting tuba parts. And the sound of the band is brilliant. I'm very excited about it.

Reading the treble clef got easier during the first rehearsal. I practiced the parts the next week and am getting more and more used to it. I see it as good for my brain to keep challenging myself and learning new things.

As far as the horn goes, I am gaining a new affection for my BBb tuba. Yes, I wish it were prettier - although it's not terrible - but when I'm playing the right notes, it makes a nice sound. It was the right decision for me approach the treble Bb music in this way.

I agree. Playing in a British-style brass band is great fun!

Thanks for letting me share.

[Jess Haney]

In the USA how many of the brass bands use British style compensated Eb and BBb basses (tubas)?

When I see pictures, front action tubas seem to be most common. I wonder how that affects the tone?

I'm sure there are many who own their own horns. But... I only know of one personally. Fountain City Brass Band (Kansas City) is a VERY GOOD band and their claim to fame is the fact that they have a complete matched set of bass instruments. http://fcbb.net/index.html

Great point. I had the pleasure of having a long discussion with Jaime Mitchell (sorry if my spelling is incorrect) about why they made a choice to have a matching set. Sure everyone has a preference for their horn but having a matching set gives 1 a matching timbre and 2. relative pitch quirks between instruments. So in turn you end up "disagreeing" less for pitch and timbre problems and working with style, dynamic, and articulation giving the section a tighter feel. But trust me as far as being their personal horns...not entirely. Neptune provided a great point about the level of playing. And Yes TubaKen I agree with what you said

[tofu]

In the USA how many of the brass bands use British style compensated Eb and BBb basses (tubas)?

When I see pictures, front action tubas seem to be most common. I wonder how that affects the tone?

I believe the Salvation Army Chicago Staff Band does. They have their free annual holiday concert coming up the Sat. after Thanksgiving. They are excellent and really come as close as I've heard to the true British Brass Band sound. William Hines is the director and he does a great job and it is a fun concert. If you want to hear some great Brass Band music get a ticket - they are free and a link is below.

http://centralusa.salvationarmy.org/usc/csb

[Untersatz]

With regards to reading treble clef: it is my opinion that a competent musician should be comfortable reading in any clef with any transposition. It's not that hard.

That is NOT the issue at all with brass band music. The issue is that it's transposed! I can read treble
clef music (I had piano lessons as a child) The problem is that a written C is not a C, it's actually
a Bb (played on a BBb tuba). That's the part that screws with my head!
Perhaps I'm not a "competent musician"
And not everyone has played the trumpet previously. I started out on trombone, so I have only played
Bb instruments with bass clef music, written in concert pitch (how it should be)

[GC]

The Southern Territorial Brass Band of the Salvation Army is currently touring in the Chattanooga area. I heard them tonight in Rome, GA, and they were very, very good. If you're in that area, it would be worth your while to hear them. Their schedule is at http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/10/9/2 ... thern.aspx and http://southernterritorialband.com/on-tour/.

[pgym]

With regards to reading treble clef: it is my opinion that a competent musician should be comfortable reading in any clef with any transposition. It's not that hard.

That is NOT the issue at all with brass band music. The issue is that it's transposed! I can read treble
clef music (I had piano lessons as a child) The problem is that a written C is not a C, it's actually
a Bb (played on a BBb tuba).

Actually, that IS the problem. (Well, that or reading comprehension.)

[Untersatz]

So, we have to become trumpet players first, in order to play BBb tuba in brass band.
I just received my Rubank Elementary Method book for Cornet/Trumpet today &
the price on the cover is $.90 must be a really old copy! So this weekend I start my
Trumpet/Cornet/Tuba/Treble Clef lessons!

[Lectron]

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[NCSUSousa]

So, we have to become trumpet players first, in order to play BBb tuba in brass band.

It's either that, or you need to buy music scoring software that allows you to input the part as written, then transpose from C4=Bb1 to Bb1=Bb1.

[bbocaner]

With regards to reading treble clef: it is my opinion that a competent musician should be comfortable reading in any clef with any transposition. It's not that hard.

That is NOT the issue at all with brass band music. The issue is that it's transposed! I can read treble
clef music (I had piano lessons as a child) The problem is that a written C is not a C, it's actually
a Bb (played on a BBb tuba).

Actually, that IS the problem. (Well, that or reading comprehension.)

Horn players read in C, B, Bb, A, Ab, G, F#, F, E, Eb, D, Db in multiple different octave shifts on an instrument that is pitched in F OR Bb and sometimes even high F or high Eb. Sometimes multiple different transpositions on the same page. They are not smarter than tuba or euphonium players.

Trumpet players play parts in low and high F, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, E; mostly on instruments in C or in Bb but also sometimes on instruments in D, Eb, E, piccolo A, piccolo Bb. They are absolutely not smarter than tuba or euphonium players.

Clarinet players get parts written in Eb, D, C, Bb, A, and F that they play mostly on instruments in either Bb or A. Sometimes they have to play a part meant for a Bb clarinet on an A clarinet because it's too hard to switch quickly. And vice versa. They seem to deal with it OK.

So, playing different combinations of parts in C, Bb, and Eb on instruments in Bb, C, Eb, or F should be an absolute breeze by comparison!

Just work on it a little. Build some more neurons in your brain. Once you have practiced it a little it'll just become second nature, you won't even think about it. (until some composer or arranger throws you a double flat or something like that, then you'll have to think a little. )

[pgym]

So, we have to become trumpet players first, in order to play BBb tuba in brass band.

No, you become a well-rounded musician instead of a one trick pony.

[sloan]

With regards to reading treble clef: it is my opinion that a competent musician should be comfortable reading in any clef with any transposition. It's not that hard.

That is NOT the issue at all with brass band music. The issue is that it's transposed!

Two simple questions:

1) how long did it take you to learn to read bass clef?

2) why should it take any longer to learn transposed treble clef?

And...consider the advantage - you get two for one. Once learned, you can play
both Eb and BBb.

Stop whining and dig out your Rubank, Vol. 1.

[BoilerGoalie]

Since we're on the subject ...

I've been in US brass banding for the last 6-7 years and the funny thing is that I never knew about it until after college. I knew of Grimethorpe, Black Dyke, and Cory Bands because I had recordings of them of course - but never really knew what the full details of this musical setup - and especially if there were any of these bands in the US!

The movement in the US has really took off in the last 10 years and some of the bands are now getting the proper recognition from across the pond as they've finally heard us in person!

With the 2 major contests in the US (the NABBA Championships and the US Open Championships), the interest is starting to grow little by little each year. These weekends are never publicized enough and there should be more of these events! FYI - The US Open is coming up on Saturday Nov. 2 in Charles, IL for those in the area.

As for the whole discussion of learning the parts - I don't have a music degree and it took me a couple weeks to really get used to visualizing the notes while playing on both the Eb and Bb parts. As it's been said before numerous times, get your Rubank book out and have fun with it. Having the versatility to switch from Classical Transcriptions to Jazz to Modern to everything has been a great challenge.

We went to the World Brass Band Championships in Kerkrade, Netherlands a couple months ago and that was a real treat to see (and hear) how those top bands function at that level. Hopefully the trickle-down effect keeps going in the US!

[Steve Sykes UK]

And happy to report that the Chicago Brass Band BBb tubas sounded just great at the World Music Congress in Kerkrade (as I noted at the time in my adjudicator's remarks!!).

[BoilerGoalie]

Thank you so much Steve - it was much appreciated especially coming from you.
We had a great time and your comments definitely made the trip back to the States more enjoyable!

[aqualung]

It's either that, or you need to buy music scoring software that allows you to input the part as written, then transpose from C4=Bb1 to Bb1=Bb1.

You don't need to buy anything. We transposed brass music for a century and a half before we got computers.

And BTW, the BBb transpo is C4 = Bb2.

[NCSUSousa]

It's either that, or you need to buy music scoring software that allows you to input the part as written, then transpose from C4=Bb1 to Bb1=Bb1.

You don't need to buy anything. We transposed brass music for a century and a half before we got computers.

And BTW, the BBb transpo is C4 = Bb2.

You are correct that you do not need software to transpose music. It's just easier that way.

And BTW, I got the transposing right. C4 transposed down 2 octaves is C2. 1 whole step below C2 is Bb1, not Bb2. The numbering system increments on C, not A.

Edit - Here's a couple of references so you can see the note names: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-notenames.htm http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/notes.html