Oh great, another mouthpiece question!

[Pat S]

Just purchased a MW 25 and have been alternating between my Denis Wick 5L and the PT-66 that came with the horn. I like the 30mm diameter of the DW, since it fits my face well, but the throat of the PT-66 seems to be more open and sounds better in the low register. Is there a compromise mouthpiece that sports a 30mm inner diameter, but the open throat of a PT-66? Thanks!

[Untersatz]

I like the 30mm diameter of the DW, since it fits my face well, but the throat of the PT-66 seems to be more open and sounds better in the low register.

Are you sure about using a mouthpiece that small on a full sized tuba?
I too prefer a mouthpiece on the smaller side (32mm- 32.5mm) but a 30mm
mouthpiece is way too small IMHO & won't give you ANY low range at all & will
give you more of a trombone sound than a tuba sound in the low range.
I'm just sayin'

[GC]

The Wick 5 is almost as small as a bass trombone mouthpiece. The 25 is a pretty large instrument, and you'd benefit from switching to a larger mouthpiece. It might be difficult in the short term, but you'll probably appreciate it later. Just don't go beyond a medium-sized MP to start with.

[Lectron]

No need to go bigger if he can manage the horn with a small one.
I wouldn't be remotely close. My pedal F would be in my head only

[Donn]

Another nice one that's slightly wider diameter is the Schilke 66. (I think the number is just a coincidence, doesn't appear to be any relation to the PT66!) It should feel fairly similar to the DW 5L, and the throat looks wider to me -- and the backbore, too. The two have fairly similar interior profiles, so I would guess the Schilke will sound somewhat similar (but don't know - my DW is actually a 5, so different shank and I can't play the two on the same tuba to compare.)

You might be able to dig up an old Conn Giant or Conn 3 tuba mouthpiece with small cup diameter and wide throat, but these will also be more shallow than you probably want. And of course there's probably a way to dial in just what you want within the options available in Doug Elliott parts.

[ghmerrill]

Sorry to disagree, but I don't believe that the Schilke 66 can be characterized as much like the Wick 5L at all. The Wick 5 (and 5L) is significantly smaller than the Schilke 66 and behaves quite a bit differently.

I have a Schilke 66 and used one for years on both my Yamaha 321S and my Cerveny 781 (moral equivalent of a 186). I think it's a great mouthpiece. But it is significantly larger than a Wick 5 and much more Hellebergish. Take a look at the Wick chart (and other comparison charts) and you'll see that Wick regards the 66 as "similar" to the 3/3L, which is quite a ways from the 5/5L. I would agree. At the moment, I'm trying a 3L and 3XL in my EEb compensator, and they're in the same ballpark as the Schilke 66, but better on that horn. I use a Wick 5 (same as 5L with different shank) on my little Buescher Eb, and a Schilke 66 just would NOT work on that horn. For a "normal" tuba (i.e., not a small or old-ish one, or one with fairly small bore), I would not recommend the Wick 5 as it is quite close to a bass (or contrabass) trombone mouthpiece, but deeper. As a Schilke comparison, it is more like an overgrown Schilke 60 (which I have for various reasons), but not even as big as the Schilke 62 (which I have also tried in the past).

If you want something LIKE a Schilke 66 (although the 66 is itself a great mouthpiece) you might try the Wick 3L (which I think is more bowl-shaped), or a Miraphone TU-17 (which I also have and like), or a Miraphone TU-21 (both of these are bowl-shaped mouthpieces).

[ghmerrill]

Ren Schilke copied an old Conn Helleberg when making the first 66, FWIW...

I knew that -- at least at one time . I just sat down and again tried the 3XL vs. the 66 and the PT-63 in my EEb horn. They are VERY similar in terms of the results. I'm trying to decide whether the 3XL is worth spending the money on as compared with staying with the PT-63 or going (back) to the 66. It's not an easy choice because they really do seem so similar to me -- mostly some subtle differences in tone color, and articulation -- and the 66 has a somewhat narrower-feeling rim than the others. I say "narrower-feeling" because actual measurement of mouthpiece rims (as Doug Elliott has pointed out on occasion) depends very much on exactly where you do the measuring, what the rim profile is, etc.

I am (today) leaning towards the 3XL for this horn. It's very comfortable (significantly more so than the 2L and 3L rims) without being 24AW-ish. I like the sound it produces a bit more (slightly "fuller" or less bright in many places?), and (what may be the deciding factor) the sound does not break up as readily at higher dynamic levels as with the others. Again, not a huge difference, but noticeable. It sacrifices a bit in the high range, but that can be a matter of practice or just using something like the TU-17 or the 66 if that's where I really need to be playing for an extended period. The 3L makes the high range a bit easier, but overall, I prefer the 3XL to it in terms of feel.

I may end up keeping the 3XL and selling the 2L and the Schilke -- though I swear that every time I've sold a Schilke 66 I've found reason a couple of years later to buy another one .

[Donn]

Well, as you can see, you can get some pretty strong reactions to the idea of a 30mm cup diameter on a large tuba. `Bass trombone', etc. But as you know, no one will know what mouthpiece you're playing, they only hear what comes out.

Maybe Denis Wick mouthpieces changed more than I thought over the years. I'm sticking with my story, I hate bowl shaped mouthpieces, hate my DW 2 for that reason, but my DW 5 isn't much that way for me. But I see the PT-66 is also described as bowl shaped, so if that's what works for you, maybe that Bach 22 would be closer, and it does seem to have a relatively large throat. (Incidentally, I've tried my DW 5 on my bass trombone, as the shank sort of fits, and it's terrible! though of course it does help for the very bottom notes.)

[ghmerrill]

(Incidentally, I've tried my DW 5 on my bass trombone, as the shank sort of fits, and it's terrible! though of course it does help for the very bottom notes.)

Not surprising. I've tried the Schilke 60 on my euph and it's terrible -- though a wonderful trombone mouthpiece and on the euph produces a very nice, though out of tune, low range. The Schilke 60 actually "works" on the old Buescher Eb tuba, but ends up not sounding a lot like a tuba in the low range. Ideally, I have the hunch it would be happier with something like a little shallower Wick 5.

If you ever get a chance, try the Bach CB contrabass trombone mouthpiece on something . Scary lump of brass that is.

[Jay Bertolet]

Are you sure about using a mouthpiece that small on a full sized tuba?

Not to totally disagree with you, but I've had quite a few prominent tuba performers advise me that using a smaller mouthpiece on a bigger horn was exactly the right choice. Issues of enhanced control and efficiency were cited. I didn't follow that advice when selecting a mouthpiece for my large CC but I can appreciate the logic. It has worked quite well for some pros.

[Untersatz]

I think we pretty much all agree that a 30mm rim dia. mouthpiece on a contrabass tuba
is way too small, but what is most important, is what fits you the best. If you can play
a MW 25 with a 30mm MP then more power to you. I have a Bach 25 that I use for extended
high range playing (yes I know it's a crutch) but my high range chops are NOT as good as I'd
like them to be. But that Bach 25 has a 30.60mm rim & I can't play in the low range worth a
damn with that MP at all. On the other hand the PT-66 is slightly larger than the mouthpiece
I normally use. The Bach 22 that Joe suggested sounds like a great in between choice for you
to try. It has a rim dia. of 31.60mm & throat size of 8.62mm which is even larger than the PT-66
throat size (8.0mm) I also need a mouthpiece a little on the smaller side just to fit my face, so
I know where you're coming from. Anything lager than 33mm......my face just seems to fall in