Intonation issues when switching tubas

[UrbaneScorpion]

I have a problem. I'm in high school, and practice a st. petey horn at home. I spend a few hours on it, and then show up to band class the next day. I pick up one of our school's shiny King 2341's, plug my mouthpiece in, and...I am horribly flat. At 440hz, I am roughly 20-40 cents below the pitch, even with every slide all of the way in. After a few hours of playing the king, the horn will have greatly improved intonation. I'm assuming that this correction occurs because my embouchure, air, etc. are adjusting to the horn. I must play on both instruments; transporting one back and forth won't work.

Is there anything I can do to ease the intonation discrepancies I'm experiencing? I use a Wick 1L on both horns (big piece, I know). Is this driving me flat? Should I find a mouthpiece that fits the king better?

[bill]

Yes, there is a way you can come to a horn prepared to play in pitch. Try this as a warm up. And use something like "Pitch Lab," an app for your cell phone.

Second line BBb, bottom staff F and 3rd Ledger Space BBb; First Space A, First ledger E and 3rd Ledger line A . . . go all the way down to Low E or Eb and watch the pitch on Pitch Lab. When you are finished, with the 7 or 8 sets of tones, you should be playing in pitch, or closer to it than you are now. You will also discover if going from King to St. Peter will show you are playing sharp when you do that but my guess is you are not.

Now, when you get good at the warm up, practice, sing it in to the App and see if you can get the tones correctly pitch centered the first time you try to sing them. Your ear knows what to expect; you need to make sure your embouchure respects that and anticipates the pitch, then produces it.

If you would like to e-mail me, I will attach the exercise written out, as a .pdf.

[Lectron]

A tuba can when cold be quite a bit flat. If you bother, do the math

PitchTemp.jpg

Making you 40 cent low could very much be so if the tuba comes from a cold storage,
but I have a feeling Bill is on to something. If you can't sing in pitch, you really
do not know what to play

Every room, especially smaller ones, inflict intonation and hearing/feeling your own tone at
home (or vibrations) vs intonate to the guy next to you is a different story.

[Dan Schultz]

I have to agree with the last two posters inasmuch as just the King being cold can easily contribute to the horn playing flat in excess of 30 cents. If the horn eventually warms up... what's the big deal?

Also... you might be doing funny things with your chops to make the St. Pete play in tune at home.

Then too.... the St. Pete and King tubas are about as different as one can get.... .83X" bore rotary vs. .68X" bore piston. You can't really expect them to perform the same.

[imperialbari]

Air speed is a factor, as is tone colour.

If these two tubas were played the exact same way, the St. P would be sensed having a lower resistance due to the wider bore. And it would sound more compact due to the German style design.

Because you spend most hours on the St. P, you adjust your playing to sound right on that tuba. But the results of your preparation is measured by your playing on the King.

Only the King's resistance slows your air, so your pitch sags, which is worsened by a deadened and woofy sound with no of the upper octave partials being audible for you ear to compare with the general pitch of the band.

If you play the St. P with a pulled main slide and plays it with an overly compact, next to punchy, sound and at the right pitch, despite the pulled main slide, then your chances at getting ideal sound and pitch on the King would become much better.

Practicing the St. P with a mute may be helpful.

Klaus

[UrbaneScorpion]

It's wintertime.

Do you live where temps are currently in the 30's or lower?

Do you store your St. Pete at home near a nice cozy-warm central air vent?

Is the King stored in a chilly instrument room?

My CC and BBb tubas (when they're chilly, from sitting around in a not-particularly-warm room during the winter) play quite flat at first...until I warm up the room (via forced-air heat), warm up the tuba body itself, and blow warm air through the tuba.

The cold is definitely not helping, but I am just as flat in the winter as I am in the warmer months.

If you play the St. P with a pulled main slide and plays it with an overly compact, next to punchy, sound and at the right pitch, despite the pulled main slide, then your chances at getting ideal sound and pitch on the King would become much better.
Klaus

Would all of the slide pulling and adjustments hurt my performance on the St. Pete, though? I use it for auditions and performances, as I sound significantly better on it.

I'll try the pitch centering exercises.

[ghmerrill]

Do you always use the same 2341? Are you the only player who is so flat on it?

[UrbaneScorpion]

Do you always use the same 2341? Are you the only player who is so flat on it?

My school owns two 2341's and I am equally flat on both of them. Others in my section have intonation problems on certain valve combinations. The only difference between myself and them is that their open bugles are in tune.

[UrbaneScorpion]

It might be worth mentioning that these two horns aren't the only instruments that I have trouble on. My school's Jupiter 582L makes me go flat on the Petersburg.

[imperialbari]

At your age it is not easy, and should not even be a goal to be pursuited yet, to have surplus to adapt to any instrument on the fly.

As you use the St. P to do auditions, you should optimise your playing on that instrument. The King then is the element to be taken out of the equation, even if it is considered a good tuba.

If the school has a less shiny older tuba of a type closer to the St. P, then use that tuba. Bring your St. P for dress rehearsals and concerts with the band.

Klaus