King/Conn tuba questions/ramblings...

[Tubajug]

Ok, in the next month or two I will be buying a 4-valve "bigger" tuba for myself that I can have as my main horn for many years to come. Its main uses will be to play in the community orchestra and the occasional polka and quintet gig.

I'm fairly certain I'm going to buy a "newer" old King 1241 (19" detachable upright bell, flipped first valve and unwrapped third valve tubing). I really enjoyed the three-valve King 1240 I had for a while. First question: Are there any differences in intonation tendencies, response, etc with the 4-valve version? I did play one at Dan Schultz's place last summer for a few minutes and liked it well enough, but I've never played the 4-valve for any significant length of time (I loved that BBb Marzan he had though...boy that thing was beefy!).

The other day I noticed the Conn 2J for sale here and that got me wondering about that horn now... I've played a 3J for a few minutes before and the first thing I thought was "Wow! This plays a lot bigger than it looks!" Is the same true of the 2J? That question leads to this one: Would it be big enough to support the 70-ish piece community orchestra I play in as my only horn? Or would the King be more suited to that? I really did enjoy playing CC tuba while I owned one, but I'm just fine back in BBb now.

If I like CC and want bigger I could always go buy a clone...as I did play on a 186 CC when I played CC...but I won't open that can of worms.

Like I said, I'm fairly certain I want to go with a King (as I would like to do my own Gnagey-esque CC conversion with it someday...) but just had these few questions floating around in my head. As always, any comments, on-topic or not, are always welcome.

[Art Hovey]

I think you can hear yourself a lot better with a short-belled tuba such as the 2J or 3J or the new-style king than with a tall-bell tuba such as the old-style king with detachable upright bell. That might make the comparison difficult from behind the mouthpiece. Perhaps it would be helpful to have some other good tubist play both instruments for you while you listen from some distance away, with the whole band playing, if possible. Tell him or her to play both horns with equal effort while you listen.

Back in the 1920s short-bell tubas were common. 30 or 40 years later for some reason everybody was selling tall tubas. (If you have any old solos by Harold Walters look at his photo on the front!) Now the short bells are coming back into style.

[WilliamVance]

1241s are good, solid horns. In my experience the old style kings project better than the new style. I have owned both. It may be quite a blow to support a 70 piece band on your own, but a king will cut through. I only have one qualm about the 4-valves and that is the low Ebs and lower tend to be stuffy, but if you think warm, slow air you can whomp out the pedals with practice. Now I have the luxury of having a 2341 valve section mated with a Martin 6/4 body and it's a sweet horn. The king valve section made a huge difference in playing nimbly. Now I know why Kanstul does a lot of .689 bores on their tubas.

[Tubajug]

Thanks for the replies so far. The group I'm playing with is a community orchestra, not a band, so I don't know if that changes any of your responses.

Unfortunately, I don't have a King or a Conn to do the side-by-side comparison as suggested by Art. The ones I have played were owned by others who don't live nearby.

I'm mostly leaning toward the King because of my experience with the 3-valve I owned (I really did like the sound) and all of the positive comments I've read on here over years about the 1241's.

The King is just a hair bigger than the Conn 2/3J correct? Both in bore and dimensions?

[WilliamVance]

With your wanting to support a 70 piece orchestra, not a band, I think the King would be a fine tuba for that. I believe the king is a 4/4 tuba with a .687 bore and the conns were more of a 3/4 size with a .656ish bore.

[EdFirth]

Jordon, I've owned and played jobs on 2J's, 3J's, two piece Kings,and short bell Kings. I think one can play anything well on any of them. But, the Conns, while clear, centered, and in tune will be audible but not have the broad bottomy sound of the Kings. I totally concur with Art's observation about the detachable Kings projecting better than the short ones. If you haven't played much on one of the tall ones with four valves you'll probably find it a bit stuffier than the three valved one you had before. But you'll get the feel for it and they can be very big dark broad in the low end once you get used to it. I currently have a newer 2341 as well as a 1241 with the modifications you talked about and I don't think you can do too much better for one tuba than either of these. Happy low notes. Ed