Miraphone Bruckner (291) question

[J.Harris]

Has anyone played yellow brass and gold brass versions of the Bruckner side by side. I was wondering if there was any NOTICEABLE difference in sound. I've searched the archives on the whole yellow,gold,rose brass debate and we don't need to revisit that lest there be violence. I just have a liking for the looks of the gold brass and wondered if anyone had any anecdotal opinions. Thanks folks.- Jason

[bort]

That would be a beautiful looking tuba, but I'm not sure it's really necessary.

I haven't played a yellow and gold Bruckner side-by-side, but I have played the Bruckner, and found it to be a VERY dark horn even in yellow brass. I used to own a 1291, and it was the same thing -- yellow and very dark sound. I'd think that a gold brass 291 or 1291 might be overkill, and too far in the other direction. You may notice more of a difference in projection than in the tone. Wild guess here -- maybe the differences in materials have a greater effect on smaller instruments?

My other frame of reference is my gold brass 188 -- I've played several gold 188's against yellow 188's. LOVE the sound of the gold 188, it's a little darker and sweeter than the yellow. The 188 is also a far easier tuba to "break," than the 291/1291, and the gold brass is beneficial as it helps hold it together a bit more. I do notice a slight decrease in projection from the yellow brass, but it's not a major concern. You can address/adjust a lot of things with different mouthpieces as well..

That said, I've also tried 2 other gold brass Miraphones -- an excellent Firebird, and an outstanding brand new gold brass 4v 186 CC.

So I wouldn't say "no" to gold brass instruments, not by any stretch. I'm just not sure it's fully necessary on the Bruckner.

[swillafew]

Only played the yellow, but it sounded fantastic to me.

[J.Harris]

Here's a photo on Miraphone's Website... click on the goldbrass one....BEEE UUU TEE FULL!


http://miraphone.de/en/en_modeldetails. ... =1&lang=en

[bort]

If I ever ordered a brand new gold brass Miraphone, I would special order it with a complete nickel silver valve block and leadpipe (which is what my 188 has). I've asked Miraphone before if this is an option on new tubas, and it is. I think it was about $100 extra (big whoop! ).

I think Charlie Krause used to have a gold brass 191 (the BBb version), maybe if he's still around here he can chime in.

[pjv]

I also (like the rest) haven't compared the two.
My experience with gold brass (and red brass) is that it takes more volume to get an edge on the sound. This is probably why orchestra trombonists will often go for a red brass horn. Trombones being "cylindrical" get edgier faster than most tubas, even the large bore bones. The red brass helps keep the sound together longer. On the other hand, the red brass with jazz trombonists is not entirely popular. Even though these horns often produce a lovely sound (and many player do use them), its much harder work to stick out and play a lead line or a solo above the rest.

A large bore tuba, from my perspective, is generally a big wide warm sound. But we also need to be able to play other sound qualities and get a bit brighter. I feel a gold brass bell on a large tuba often gets in the way, making it much harder work.

On the other hand, I use an small F tuba with a red brass bell for quintet work. In louder volumes a small F has less warm lows than a BAT. I feel the red brass helps to keep the low end warmer in louder volumes.

good luck

[bort]

I also (like the rest) haven't compared the two.

I'd bet the only gold brass Bruckner ever made is the one in their marketing picture. Miraphone will make you anything you want (for a price), but I think that tuba in that configuration is very low demand.

I also agree somewhat with the "edge" comment, though mouthpiece selection can help with that as well. Not to jump on the bandwagon, but the Blokepiece symphony has worked really well for me to give more clarity and attack, while not sacrificing the dark sound.

One other note -- I like playing my 188 more in orchestra than I do in band. I think that has nothing to do with gold/yellow brass, but just wanted to mention it.

[Mikelynch]

While I have not played yellow brass and gold brass Bruckners directly back to back, I have played several yellow brass ones, and own a gold brass one. Disclaimer: I have a rose/gold brass bias, both aesthetically (I think they are just beautiful), and at least in the case of the instruments I own, I perceive them having a "warmer" and more "colorful" sound. Every Miraphone I have bought new (subsequent to the first Mirafone in 1966), has been gold brass.

The gold brass Bruckner has what I describe as a very warm, enveloping sound, with a lot of color in the sound (and that is what I like in the rose/gold brass horns. I think the yellow brass Bruckners sound great, but, to me, there is additional color in the sound of the gold brass versions. My perceptions (and they may be just that, accurate or not), are that my gold brass Bruckner responds slightly quicker (or that could be just my horn); but that the yellow brass version goes to a slightly higher volume before breaking up (though that could be just my Bruckner, or the last yellow brass one I have played)

A couple of comparisons that might be manageable, depending on where you are, would be to compare the 191 BBb's in yellow brass and gold brass. At TBA quite a few years ago I fell in love with a gold brass 191 BBb. The Bruckner is, in essence, the CC version of the 191, and the comparisons between 191's should be comparable (and there are a few 191's around in gold brass). Also, you may be able to find a gold brass 188 to compare to a yellow brass one. I would expect that comparison to be instructive on the differences you would find re the Bruckners.

Matt Walters at Dillons has had more than one gold brass Bruckner (and gold brass 188s) through the shop, and could provide his perceptions to guide a purchase.

[bort]

Whoa, so I was way off then! Many more gold brass Miraphones than I realized!

The brand new gold brass 186 I tried at Dillon's a few years ago was still THE easiest tuba to play that I've ever played.

[J.Harris]

Thanks for all the replies! I used to live about 45 mins from WWBW and took for granted how easy it was to hop over and play a bunch of horns. Now living in Florida, I miss being able to do so. I sold my horns (Norwegian Star and a Gronitz PCK) about three years ago during my divorce and am really starting to get the itch to play in a group again so I do appreciate the input.

[MackBrass]

I have owned both gold brass and yellow brass Alexanders and currently have a gold brass alex. I can say the sound is warmer and tighter with the gold brass.

right now I have compared the silver and lacquer 410cc with a 410cc with a gold brass bell and the gold brass bell 410 is the winner. Although the silver and lacquer versions still sound great the model with the only a gold brass bell is noticeably different in a positive way. This makes me think that just getting a horn with a gold brass bell is all you need. Right now i have one 410 with a GB bell n my studio that I have put my name on as it is incredible.

Although a complete gold brass horn looks beautiful I think all that is needed is a change in the bell. When Tony Clements was bringing in the new Alexanders back in the day he had it right by ordering some with only a GB bell. If anyone gets a chance to do a side by side you will hear the difference right away.

on the other hand, if you have a dark sounding horn to start with I think the GB will be overkill.

[bort]

You know, I was wondering about the GB bell vs completely GB. I've seen that on Alexanders, Kanstuls (not GB, but same idea), and on the Wessex tubas as well. I think I've seen it as an option on Meinl-Weston tubas as well, and this is a common bass trombone option too.

Not sure if Miraphone has that as a standard option, but I'm sure they'd make one like that as a special order.

I'm curious now about the different GB setups:
-- Gold brass bell only (rest is yellow brass)
-- All gold brass (body, bell, valve section/slides/leadpipe)
-- Gold brass body/bell, nickel silver valve section/slides/leadpipe (my tuba)

I will say that I tested my 188 (gold brass with nickel silver leadpipe through main slide) alongside of a normal gold brass 188. Both are excellent tubas, and I preferred both to the yellow brass versions. And even though both were excellent, I liked my 188 that much more than the new one.

In the end though, the differences are very subtle, and this kind of stuff is ultra-subjective. I've heard plenty of people NOT like gold brass tubas as well.