High range!!!!

[vd8m9]

Any tips on getting the high range better?? Notes: F+

[ghmerrill]

I'm always confused about octave notation. What do you mean by 'F+'? Does that mean the F the octave above the bass clef staff? That's pretty high on a tuba. I can do the Eb reliably, and I'm working up to doing the "Second Suite" euph solo on the EEb horn. But realistically, why would anyone do that?

[Donn]

My guess is that it's the F in the bass clef. That's the first question, though. I guess the next question is, what's happening, or not happening? Can't make the right note come out? Can't make the right note come out under certain circumstances? Can't get good tone on the higher notes?

I have to admit I spend a long time, playing the tuba, feeling like F in the staff was an awkwardly high note. I `practiced' hard at that stuff, but it was time wasted, because I was doing a bunch of stuff wrong. Now I can practice and get better. Unfortunately I greatly doubt that I can give anyone reliable advice, even in person and certainly not over the internet. In fact the big step ahead for me could roughly be generalized as "don't listen to how other people say to play the tuba!" I mean, the cause of my woes was actually some conventional prescription for how to play, that I had read early on and (uncharacteristically) taken to heart - so it would be terribly ironic for me to turn around and do the same thing!

[ghmerrill]

My guess is that it's the F in the bass clef.

Oh. Then I'm really confused since I've never regarded that as high. It seems that it should be within the normal range of most elementary players. Am I wrong about this?

[TexTuba]

Eat your vitamins.

[Donn]

My guess is that it's the F in the bass clef.

Oh. Then I'm really confused since I've never regarded that as high. It seems that it should be within the normal range of most elementary players. Am I wrong about this?

Well ... that's probably an easy question if we can pin down the ambiguities ("should be", "elementary player".)

Here's one way to look at it: the written repertoire I ever play (I'm not much for legit repertoire) is marches. Sousa et al. I can think of one (1) where the top part goes up to Ab. I don't remember seeing anything above F anywhere else in my book, and that one march isn't a very familiar one anyway, so if we just forget about that, F is as high as it gets. To me, that means it's high, but of course it's all relative.

But that's kind of irrelevant, a semantic question really. Suppose we accept your premise, and it isn't really high, now what? Does that mean no one has trouble up there, so vd8m9 must have meant the F in the treble clef? Not at all, I think.

[MikeMason]

Trouble.trouble trouble trouble( in the voice of ray lamontagne)

[UDELBR]

My recommendation: "Armstrong method".



(get it? arm strong! huhuhuhuhu...)

[Cthuba]

Bugles.

Essentially slurring through the harmonic series. Cleared my sound and kick started my range.

[vapourboy]

Bugles as above, (this is a case where you may have license to not use the fingerings producing the best intonation for your particular horn. Valve depression and release can provide a bit of a crutch for the slurring. In other words, on a BBb horn slur C-F-A-C using fourth valve for all) and really any intensive slurring. Slur approach from below your target higher note. Don't articulate the notes as that means you might "reset" and fuss with your embouchure to illegitimately squeak out the high register. This should be a smooth transition all the way up, consistent in dynamic and in tone quality. If the Bb can be played at piano, the F and beyond should be. Bb-C-D-Eb-F-(Gb, G, Ab, etc) always slurred.
Don't forget to follow this up with a slurred descent into the meaty range and beyond, even down to pedal. Cool down routines such as this are important after exploring the limit of your personal high register.

Do this in the presence of someone who knows what to listen for both good and bad when you can. It can be difficult to honestly assess the quality of your slurs when you "feel" as if everything is being done correctly. (Hint, more air will alleviate most issues)

Advice I've received which has worked wonders for me when consistently applied...

[ghmerrill]

But that's kind of irrelevant, a semantic question really. Suppose we accept your premise, and it isn't really high, now what? Does that mean no one has trouble up there, so vd8m9 must have meant the F in the treble clef? Not at all, I think.

If you confine yourself to marches -- and more, to a particular genre of marches -- then it's true that the range may rarely go over the F (or G) at the top of the staff. If you look through the Tuba Christmas book, the Tuba 1 parts are peppered with Fs, and Gs, and a bunch of A-flats, As, and B-flats, and an occasional C. And the Tuba Christmas stuff is intended to be accessible to most average players. The Tuba 1 parts are often played by BBb players.

Is that F near the top of the staff "really" high? Well, one way to look at this is to see that it's only around a fifth higher than your normal tuning note. That shouldn't be considered "really" high, I think. But people may differ in this view. I think that for most elementary/intermmediate players, it's reasonable to think of the Bb and C above the staff as "really high" (at least until you learn to play them; then they're not ).

What I meant by saying that the F should be within the range of elementary players is that as far as I can recall, it IS in the range of most elementary players (players with one or two years of experience in middle school and high school, for example). I have sat beside some elementary players from whom the G immediately above it is "really high". But the F and G are actually IN THE STAFF! So it's difficult for me to think of that as "high". Maybe it's just me.

But there's a non-semantic issue here -- which is the reason for wanting to get clear on the semantics. I was -- honestly -- confused at the thought that precisely that F (in the staff) was being thought of as "high F". That matters because the advice you would give for being able to handle that F is somewhat different from the advice you would give for handling the F an octave above it. And the advice for even USING that (genuinely high, above the staff) F, especially on a BBb horn, would be different as well. That's the practical (non-semantic) issue. As far as that advice goes, at this point others have provided it.

However, one thing I would at least think about and check on in this case is the size of the mouthpiece since this may be hindering the initial development of a reasonable range. For example, if an elementary (or even intermediate) student is handed something like a Conn 120S to start with (and I've often seen that), this can be a real and totally unnecessary stumbling block -- and moving to something like a Bach 25 could yield much better developmental results.

[Mark]

If you mean the F above middle C, then here are my thoughts:

1) You should be able to play a 4th or 5th above the highest note you will ever need. If you need that F then work on playing to the Bb above that. If you need that Bb above middle C, then work on playing the Eb above that. If you think that can't be done, then look at some of Chris Olka's videos on Youtube.

2) Buy some beginning to easy trombone solo books that have music you already know (e.g. movie themes). Learn to play these solos down one octave. Once you have them in your head, play them at the octave written.

[Phil Dawson]

Build up our low register. Believe it or not a great way to improve your high chops is to get better low chops. The low register helps you to use better air and to relax. It is very easy to tighten up when trying to go high when in reality you need to relax, good luck, Phil

[hbcrandy]

I have posted this on this forum several times in the past. It is my exercise to build the musculature for the high register.

This high register exercise only works if you do not have perfect pitch. It is important that you do not know the pitch of the note you are sounding by buzzing your lips.

Begin by buzzing, on your mouthpiece, the lowest note that you can comfortably sound with a mouthpiece buzz. Do not worry about what musical pitch you are sounding. be sure to deliver a large quantity of air when buzzing you mouthpiece.

Using that low note as the tonic, buzz a major scale up and down, in quarter notes, with the quarter note equaling about 90 beats per minute. When arriving at the tonic note of your major scale, continue back up to the second degree of that scale and stop after sounding the second degree pitch. Hear that pitch in your mind and sing it using the syllable " Do", establishing it as the tonic note of your next major scale. Repeat the process in this paragraph with the new tonic and continue until you can absolutely not produce the top note of the scale. During this process, focus on nothing but singing the major scale on your mouth piece and delivering lots of air to create a solid buzzing sound.

You will find that delivering air and singing the scale in your mind as you buzz, you are no longer focused on the physical aspects of playing in the high register, hence making the high register easier. This exercise removes the visual, perceptual cues of written music in which your self-perceived high register limit is embedded. By not knowing what notes you are producing, you are probably playing higher than you think you can.

Initially, do this exercise once a day. When it becomes familiar, increase it to twice a day. Eventually, add memorized scales on the instrument, only focusing on singing the scales with your instrument. You will find that playing the scales will be much easier and the high register will have increased as a result of the scale buzzing exercise that I described.

Another thing that is important in all registers, but the high register especially, is to be able sing the pitches on the page and hear them in your head as you play. A lot of high register problems stem from not knowing where one is going when going after a high note or passage.

Also, the quote below from Phil Dawson's post is VERY true. Improve your low register, use lots of air and relax.

Build up our low register. Believe it or not a great way to improve your high chops is to get better low chops. The low register helps you to use better air and to relax. It is very easy to tighten up when trying to go high when in reality you need to relax, good luck, Phil

[Bob Kolada]

Play it on piano, or better, euph. Learn to play euph if you don't already. The biggest part of solid upper register tuba playing is having a solid feel for the pitches.

[Tubadude999]

As Phil said, develop your low register. Your LOW register, as in the B flat below pedal B flat. Also, do basic lip slurs (Bb in the staff, D, F) and then add the B flat on top of that and then the C ( which can be played open) and then the D so that you should be able to efficiently slur from B flat in the staff to D above the staff.

[Tubadude999]

Also, try to get your hand on the Bruckner high range warmup.

[ghmerrill]

Also, try to get your hand on the Bruckner high range warmup.

Yes, but if you look around at "high range exercises", they end up being pretty much all the same: slurring scales and arpeggios up and down. That's because this really works . Look here http://music.unt.edu/tuba/exercises.php.

I'd say that the take-away quick summary here is:

• [1] Work on the low range (Blazhevich is good for this). This is surprisingly important and also counter-intuitive to most people.
  [2] Usual "high range" exercises involving slurring scales and arpeggios up and down, progressively getting better. One way in which this helps is that it makes it easier to "hear in your head" the next pitch you're trying to produce until you learn it and can produce it alone and without the scale/arpeggio context.
  [3] Playing euphonium (or maybe trombone). Bob's remark about learning the pitch (you have to HEAR it in your head) is right on the money. I've found that both my euphonium and my tuba playing improve from working with both instruments.

If you do these things (and LISTEN to what you're doing, don't get overly tense about it and screw up your embouchure in "trying to play higher"), you'll be surprised at how fast you'll improve.

[Tubadude999]

Neat trick I learned from DZ during my lesson with him today. We were working the second half of the first movement and he told me to pull my lip in as I take a breath preparing to play a high passage. It preps your lips for the upper register. I already see an improvement.

[Roger Lewis]

Read my post here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4051&hilit=hIGH+rANGE" target="_blank

It isn't hard. When you try to do it without the right information and fail you start to think it's hard and it's not.

Roger