Longevity of Chinese instruments

[Cthuba]

This thread is in no way trying to bash these instruments. In fact I have been considering buying one. I'm skeptical because I did own a chinese horn and little things happened... I won't name the brand, but there were issues that infuriated me. (5th valve linkages breaking off... Valve posts bending.)

Has anyone owned these instruments (Wessex, Mack, and every other company) and can tell me if they believe these horns will hold together well with years of play? I know only time will tell, so I guess I'm just asking for opinions.

[sousaphone68]

I have a 4 valve Eb tuba that I have been playing daily for 3.5 years so far it has has held up well it has had one warranty trip to a repair person for a loose slide stay.

The valves after a bedding in period are good with no signs of wear.

My only gripe would be that every where I hold it the lacquer is worn away this happened in the first year of ownership.

The foam hard case zip failed and the supplier offered to replace it under his 3 year warranty but I got a Besson hard case for it instead.

Overall I am happy that the tuba will last me for at least another 5 to 10 years I have owned my Besson New Standard for 30 years so I don't change tubas very often.

I have seen Stagg euphoniums survive for 5 years in a youth community band that I play with but they get tore up on a regular basis, they have been repaired and still play well but they now look very used.

If I had it all to do again I would most likely buy a silver plate version of my tuba as the silver plate versions that I have seen appear to have a slightly better cosmetic finish.

[Ulli]

There is no longevity of Chinese Instruments in general- just how there is no longevity of US,- German- or Czech Instruments in general.

[ghmerrill]

There is no longevity of Chinese Instruments in general- just how there is no longevity of US,- German- or Czech Instruments in general.

So now I expect my 1924 Buescher tuba to stop working any day now . Damn!

I take your point -- with the emphasis on "in general". But certainly "in general" I would expect one of the older German, Czech, French, English, Swiss, American instruments to have greater longevity than the current crop of Chinese ones (and I own two of those and am very happy with them). That Buescher horn of mine was hardly ever top of the line, but it's built like a tank compared to the Chinese (and various other contemporary) instruments. We're talking about things like composition (hardness) of the brass, thickness of the brass, depth of silver plating (astonishing), quality of solder joints, etc.

The jury is still out on the longevity of the current Chinese products (as a comparison, look at the change in the longevity of Japanese products a half-century ago). I think that Bloke's remarks are most relevant here. And the OP's question really isn't about "absolute longevity", but whether in the case of Chinese instruments the longevity is "good enough" relative to their cost and other characteristics. I think it is, but the jury is still out to some degree. And it's also a moving target since it's getting better all the time (and then, as in the case of the Japanese products of yesteryear, the cost will rise as well).

[Rick F]

What about spare parts for these instruments? Or, finding a tech willing to work them?

[Bass Flatulance]

I was not surprised when my kid's $5000 car needed something little fixed every other month. My kid was. Last month he needed wiper blades. He thought it would be as reliable as his mom's 2 year old Cadillac has been. Now he's learning that if you just take a little extra care it gets him to work and to see his girl friend just fine. He also has money left over each month to take his girl out and still put a little aside.
Also, his maintenance bill is less each month than the depreciation on the wife's fancy pants Caddy. Look, I don't expect a $2 hammer to swing as nice or feel as good as a $20 hammer, but they both can drive a nail in a board and I own both.
Buy what is good enough. But if it is a tool you will use over and over (earn your living), spend a little extra IF you can afford it.

[Cthuba]

I guess another question to add to my previous one is if more parts of the instrument are soldered. I was surprised when my fifth valve linkage came off to find that it was glued on, and the linkage came only from playing. Believe me. I did'nt play shuffle board with this tuba.

I'd use a St. Pete for that.

[ghmerrill]

What about spare parts for these instruments? Or, finding a tech willing to work them?

Finding spare parts for the Buescher is pretty challenging. Luckily it doesn't seem to need any. For the Chinese instruments, I haven't needed to do this, but both Jonathan and Tom indicate it's not a real problem. In terms of things like valve felts, I've had no problem at all. The biggest problem in that regard is finding inexpensive ones (that are correct) for the 981 clone. But they're available from Dawkes/Windcraft.

My impression is that for a while there was this myth floating around that "No one will work on them." But that's turned out to be false -- if only because they're being sold by more places (and some places with their own techs) now.

[Wyvern]

I can honestly say that of the hundreds of instruments we have sold to date, I have not heard of any suffering unrepairable problems, and only a handful each year calling on our 3 year guarantee at all. There was one particular stay coming unsoldered on a few EEb tubas, so we got the factory to strengthen and no further problems. Straps on cases were also occasionally failing and wheels breaking, so we have also had both strengthened. It is a process of continually improving from experience.

For spare parts, we are adding more stock all the time, and if we don't have something, will either include in next order, or in emergency get sent air-mail from factory. We have very good repairman we use in both UK and USA - mostly to repair shipping damage, which is actually far greater problem (for us) than defects with the instruments

[Wyvern]

We have very good repairman we use in both UK and USA - mostly to repair shipping damage, which is actually far greater problem (for us) than defects with the instruments

Who is your repairman in the USA?

Sam Gnagey

[MackBrass]

If you want to see the future look at the past.

[Dan Schultz]

What about spare parts for these instruments? Or, finding a tech willing to work them?

I just created a 24" long conical section for a 150 year old ophicleide from sheet brass so working on horns that don't have a stock of parts is sort of a moot point.

I will work on anything. But... it's sometimes difficult to tell a customer that the fix is going to cost more than the horn... this is particularly true of small instruments like flutes, trumpets, etc. Working on tubas is a far cry from having to deal with a rental fleet of thousands of school instruments. I can fully understand why the larger music stores won't mess with imports... unless it's one they have experience with and are selling themselves.

It's not the big things that give me fits. Waterkeys that are cheap castings and soft keywork on saxophones tend to be a royal pain.

Making and bending large tubes to build things that make fart noises is not exactly rocket science. But... it does require many years of prototyping and experience to get them correct 'right out of the gate'.

[tofu]

[bort]

At least you can get Miraphone parts! (A knock on Meinl Weston, not China.)

[J.Harris]

I'd like to have this part, but It fluctuates between $159 and 229, and I'll be damned before I pay that much for half a dozen short tubes and a couple of crooks

That really seems like a reasonable price for that part. Yeah it's just some tubes and whatnot but the main cost isn't in materials. It's in the labor and expertise that it takes to assemble and finish it. These are still hand made parts. It's not like there is a machine that just churns these out at twenty an hour.

[Dan Schultz]

I'd like to have this part, but It fluctuates between $159 and 229, and I'll be damned before I pay that much for half a dozen short tubes and a couple of crooks

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/brass-in ... alve-slide" target="_blank" target="_blank


there's no logical reason that parts should be so expensive. it's just greed and poor business practices, driving away customers, forcing them to look elsewhere.

If the JinBao instruments ever get a reliable parts system in place, watch out...

I paid $129 for mine. Well worth the money when you consider what those crooks and tubing cost by themselves. BTW... don't count on the parts for a 'clone' to fit. They might be copies but they aren't exact enough to interchange major parts like slides and pistons. Heck... on some of the 'clones' the pistons won't even switch on the same horn... much less on the next one that comes off the production line.

The REALLY interesting dynamic that are going on here is that as the quality gets better... the prices of the 'clones' are going to increase. It's all a matter of what the market will bear. At the moment, the distribution networks still have a flat structure. The folks who sell the 'clones' probably still have to keep 'regular' jobs to make ends meet.

[Michael Bush]

finding a tech willing to work them?

My experience is that the tech unwilling to work on them is not a serious problem. I have never had a tech decline to work on one. Not to say that there aren't any around at all, but if you did happen to find one, the next tech you talk with is pretty sure to be glad for the business.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I think that the lack of willingness of techs to work on the Chinese instruments, was an early attempt to stem the tide of Chinese instrument purchases.

I believe that the idea was, if the parents knew that the instruments couldn't be fixed, that they would think twice about buying the instruments in the first place.

As a middle school music teacher, I was OK with the attempt, after having my own frustrations with the problems that the early instruments caused for the students.

[Dan Schultz]

I think that the lack of willingness of techs to work on the Chinese instruments, was an early attempt to stem the tide of Chinese instrument purchases. ....

You haven't worked on very many Asian flutes or saxophones, have you. (That's not a question, but a statement.)

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I think that the lack of willingness of techs to work on the Chinese instruments, was an early attempt to stem the tide of Chinese instrument purchases. ....

You haven't worked on very many Asian flutes or saxophones, have you. (That's not a question, but a statement.)

That is true....