Musing on F tubas

[MaryAnn]

I may be in a position to once again acquire a tuba in the next few months. Given my age and size and what I like to do, probably it's going to be a smallish F again. My previous F was a MW 182 which fit me really well. There are three tubas I am considering at this point; one is to find another 182 used at a reasonable price; the other two options I'm looking at are the two Wessex F tubas, the Brahms and the Strauss.
The thing is, I really liked the sound of the 182 but being an amateur level player I did struggle somewhat with projection in the low C area, which made me a little weak in some situations. I can't fix that problem with a piston tuba because of ergonomics. So...am wondering if anyone has actual experience with either of the Wessex tubas, and am also wondering if there is a 182 knock-off out there (doubtful but thought I'd ask.)
Questions would be
a) sound (the 182 was a little unique in that it had a sort of growly sound in the low register and a very sweet sound in the high register, compared to an older Symphonie that to me doesn't have the same punch in the low register.)
b) is the low C on the Wessex Strauss *really* any better centered than other rotary tubas?
c) What is the Brahms a copy of? I suspect it is bigger than I want in terms of air needed to play it

[Bob Kolada]

Another option is the Cerveny 653- compact, not that pricey, and has a great low C.

[MaryAnn]

Thanks. Didn't know about that one.

[MartyNeilan]

The 3/4 Yamaha F (YFB-621?) tubas are great little horns. Perhaps you could find one in your price range, that would be the hard part. Try before you buy, to see if you are uncomfortable with the wrist angle (it seems to be worse for taller people, so you shouldn't have that problem.)

[bort]

The 653 is a nice little tuba, I used to own one. Physically the same size as a Yamaha 621, and also very light (about 14 pounds).

If it's in your price range, there's a MW-182 for sale around Phoenix (I think...?)

[bisontuba]

Hi-
There is also a new Big Mouth Brass F tuba--with a smaller bell--you might want to check both of their F's out.... http://www.barthsbrassblog.com" target="_blank
Mark

[TheHatTuba]

Thanks for the plug, C and bort.

If you're ever in the Tempe area and want to give it a test, just send a PM/email (could probably get a GDR PT10 and FZ126 for comparison).

[MaryAnn]

Just to avert more piston suggestions, I really can't play them. I play tested a Yammie way back when I was first shopping. I loved the playability but the ergonomics were impossible.

[bill]

Copy of M-W18s.JPG

Maryann, if you remember, we both owned MW182's and Miraphone 184's. I am a bit larger than you but found their ergonomics to be suitable for me (I have short arms but a long torso). For that reason, I wonder why you would look at other horns? I don't have any trouble with the low register of the 182 and, repeatedly mentioned the looks I get from the horn section in front of me when I have to play the Pedal D (or choose to play it). The mouth piece that came with my horn was a "noname" 25 but I always used either a Yamaha 64 or a G & W Churda with a Euro shank. The Yamaha was cut at the point its shaft was the same diameter as the Euro on the Churada. Then the real trick: I spent hours on the Gregoriev Etutes. Having said that, I also owned both a Cerveny 653 and a Yamaha YFB621 and happily sold them when I got the 182. The one trick I grew up with was having the 5th valve two whole steps, rather than a flat first. That is simply because that's what we did when I was younger and I never bothered to learn the flat first bit. The 182 I have was hand built for me by MW to have a 2 whole step 5th valve. Good luck with the search.

[MaryAnn]

I just thought I'd broaden the search a little to see if there is something less expensive than a 182 that I can play just as well. The Wessex F's are cheaper than a used 182. I don't have anywhere to store one as yet (still living in the travel trailer) but hope that situation will change before too much longer. I am not at a point in my playing where I can do a lot of practice because of dystonia; the less I play the better it behaves. So basically I don't practice at all and just do rehearsals.
And BTW, I would love a custom 2 whole step 5th valve. I find the flat whole step basically useless, after having gotten used to the double whole step 5th on the 184.

[Ulli]

What do you (all) think about the Miraphone F80B (5v)?

[vapourboy]

What do you (all) think about the Miraphone F80B (5v)?

A mid 1980s 80B 5v (flat whole 5th with an extended 5th slide hanging out in the closet) is my only horn currently and I use it in all settings, even those for which you'd think it wouldn't be appropriate and honestly, would be correct. F2 (bottom of staff) and above is a natural and easy range on the horn, C above that best played with fourth valve on exposed and sustained pitch, A top of the staff 1-2, the usual. It sings and resonates in this register and it responds admirably to both slurred and articulated passages. Really what you put into the horn comes out, and it's an absolute pleasure to work your way above the staff on this horn.
Between F2 and pedal F is where life is gets fun on this horn. E natural to C natural I find that I just need to let the horn do its thing. I find myself letting the horn provide all the resistance in this range, something I consider unwise typically; otherwise, it responds as you may have heard how these horns respond down there, with regrettable intonation and tone. B natural down to pedal F actually play decently, especially at mid to higher dynamics, but articulation can be a workout. For what I use the horn for, I'm often using 4 or 5 valves where I would use 1 or 2 on any of my contrabasses past. That coupled with the noticeable changes in resistance entering and exiting the E natural - C range makes fast, low passages a constant challenge for the fingers.
I have a usable pedal range from F to A natural on this horn, and the intonation is perfect in that range and the resonance is great if not inherently somewhat brassy and edgy. In a small section of tubas I sometimes take E-C down an octave into the pedal register due to its fullness and the previously mentioned challenges present an octave up. First few bars of the typical excerpt from Respighi's Fountains I prefer on this horn over the BBb and CCs I have played. If they would just let me switch to a 5/4 CC once the low G# shows up...

So… the 80B? It may be why so many German rotor Fs acquired their notoriety for idiosyncrasies. They are all present on this horn but that doesn't mean it's not a pleasure to play and doesn't provide a surprising amount of versatility. All but the most contrabass solos? Horn is awesome. Ophicleide parts? Can't beat it. Only horn in your stable? You can make it work with conscious effort but discerning directors and conductors know it's not the right horn to hold down larger groups.