TubaTinker wrote:Here is the URL to the specific page that refers to F & Eb alto horns...
Klaus:
I think you may have solved the issue. I was unaware that King was producing both Eb & F horns in that model. Of course, without a mouthpiece, I've been unable to benchmark the actual key of the instrument. I appreciate your wisdom.
TubaTinker wrote:Here is the URL to the specific page that refers to F & Eb alto horns...
Klaus:
I think you may have solved the issue. I was unaware that King was producing both Eb & F horns in that model. Of course, without a mouthpiece, I've been unable to benchmark the actual key of the instrument. I appreciate your wisdom.
Thanks
Don
Wasn't Klaus who posted the King page link. Take a look at your horn and compare the 1st branch after the valve section. A short loop = F and a somewhat longer loop = Eb. If you can get your hands on a standard F horn mouthpiece and a tuner... you should be able to determine the fundamental pitch pretty easy.
An image might help a bit, too. It might be fun if you discovered that what you really have is a 'trombonium'.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker" http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
In a trombonium an alto horn mouthpiece would be too small.
Alto horns were used in their own right in old American bands as associated with the Civil War era. They were part of Adolphe Sax’s Saxhorn family, where they were considered the tenor member, hence the British still call them Tenor Horns. Even if they mostly fill an alto function in the brass bands. The reason for the offset in terms compared to present day use, is that Adolphe Sax considered the Eb flugelhorn (still used in France, Italy, BeNeLux, and as we have seen this year, also in Sweden) as the lead soprano instrument. Modern Bb flugelhorn was considered the alto. The narrow conical brass instrument in the trombone range was considered the baritone. The bass was the equivalent of the euphonium, and the Eb tuba was considered the contrabass. This line-up of brasses continued in the US at least to around 1880 and was then followed by a transition period of maybe 20 years towards a concert/marching band line-up very much like what we know today.
The concert band was influenced by the orchestra and by old military usage of the French horn, which was/is considered more noble than the alto horn, only it is much harder to play, especially while marching.
There have been many attempts to avoid the problems with marching the French horn. Southern Germany and Austria used alto trumpets and alto flugelhorns. Up until WWII the German army gave right-handed single Bb horns to drafted players in surplus on the trumpet. Some US military bands like the DC Navy band have marched single Bb horn. The DC ceremonial band of the US army and the Coast Guard band have marched Eb alto horns. And US school bands have marched endless variants on and hybrids of the alto horn/short French horn theme.
The permutation of an alto horn and a horn receiver is new to me. Most horn mouthpieces have relatively narrow rims compared other brasses. Yet there are horn mouthpieces with wider rims. The only brand on top of my memory is Denis Wick. Go for the non-N models.
imperialbari wrote:In a trombonium an alto horn mouthpiece would be too small.....
This is true. But.... until we see an image we don't have a clue what the original poster has.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker" http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
TubaTinker wrote:Wasn't Klaus who posted the King page link. An image might help a bit, too. It might be fun if you discovered that what you really have is a 'trombonium'.
Dan:
I definitely apologize for the confusion with names. I've just returned from a long stay in Mexico and both my mind and computers are in a state of disarray. I'm usually fairly good with the production of images, but at the moment I'm in a bit of computer hell, so the image of this horn will have to wait.
I already own a trombonium, so I know that the instrument under discussion is not one of these.
I'll examine the length of the 1st branch after the valve section as you suggest.
58mark wrote:I guess I'm going to have to send this one back, but before I buy another, it would be nice to know if either the bach or denis wick mouthpieces have the same size shank as the yamaha.
The alto horn player in the household has a Yamaha alto horn, and mouthpieces from Yamaha, Bach and Denis Wick. All the same shank, which I measure at 0.39 inches at the tip. The Yamaha is a 37C4.
I don't know what you've got there, in terms of how much further investment in it would be worthwhile, but as we usually say when this kind of thing shows up on an Eb tuba -- maybe it would be smarter to swap in a new receiver?
That would get you a perfect fit with whatever alto horn mouthpiece you want, as opposed to an unknown fit with one unusual mouthpiece that I guess wasn't intended for alto horn. The Eb trumpet mouthpiece might not be a great fit, and my limited experience with ill fitting mouthpieces suggests that it isn't a good thing.
I had a baritone like that. I think the affected range didn't go quite as far down, but the problem started in the same place, open 2nd partial. I believe the subsequent owner found a leak and was able to square that up, but not 100% sure about that. I never found anything, took it to someone who could not find anything. It was an odd one, an Alexander with 4 top valves and a forward bell, very large bore for a baritone but not a big bell, nice instrument but for that one problem.
I have a mellophone shanked mouthpiece that came to me as new old stock that is unused. It was not clearly marked on eBay and I needed a trumpet shanked one. I would sell it for what I have in it.
