Intonation problem Miraphone 191

[peterbas]

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[Phil Dawson]

Do you have the 4 or 5 valve version? Phil

[peterbas]

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[Phil Dawson]

I play a MIraphone 1293 and have some of the tendencies you are talking about. Are you using a tuner that uses equal temperament (the way a piano is tuned) or just temperament or what is also called pure harmony tuning. As instrumentalists we play in just tuning. You can tune using just temperament by playing a drone on the root of the scale and then listening as you play each tone and you can hear the pitch as it comes into tune. It is important to remember that each note is at a different pitch in different keys. For instance in the key of B flat the minor 3rd (D flat) needs to be played 16 cents sharp form equal temperament to be in tune. The Major 3rd needs to be played 14 cents sharp from equal temperament to be in tune. Tuners can be great if you have one that uses just temperament - there are several that can be downloaded to a smart phone and Peterson makes the SroboPlus HD stad alone tuner that is also very nice. So I guess my advice is to start tuning your horn more with your ears (drone, scales, chords, etc) and less with the box and you may find things going better for you, Good luck,Phil

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[burningchrome]

That Db on my 191 is perfectly in tune. I've noticed when I play with really good players, I feel like I play more in tune; maybe that's an answer.

[peterbas]

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[cjk]

if that's your worst intonation problem, then I'd consider it a gift.

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[Phil Dawson]

Playing in tune with your fellow tuba players is not an issue of temperaments. This is a question of matching their pitch and you are assuming that they are correct. Sitting down with a tuner (using just tuning) and or drones as a section might be an enlightening experience, Good Luck, Phil

[EdFirth]

Have you listened to anyone else play it? Sometimes it's easier to hear what's going on if you're not wrapped up in the physics of playing. I mostly play Kings and they have this tendency too. Especially the big rotary valved one. This could be why Bell, Torchinsky, and Novotny had their third slide reconfigured to pull from the top. Good luck with it. Ed

[burningchrome]

I only have my slide out an inch or so, but my point is I think it's your horn and not a general design issue. My pedal F is really flat (when low C and middle C are in tune).

Rob

[peterbas]

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[Phil Dawson]

Just as aside - if you have a 5 valve horn and use a 2 whole step slide for the 5th valve you can tune one set of 2/3 combinations to 2/3 and the other set to 5th and all of your 2/3 or 5th combinations will be quite well in tune. I do this on my Miraphone 1293 and it works very well. Phil

[jmerring]

Just a thought. Having played a 191 for a short while, I found yours is not alone. The bore of .835 overwhelmed me, as far as intonation is concerned.

[Roger Lewis]

Have you checked the valve alignment lately. The factory bumpers are unique in that the downstroke bumper is neoprene but the upstroke bumper is cork. These deteriorate rather quickly from the spring tension and the impact. I'd probably start there to make sure the horn is in proper alignment.

Roger

[Dan Schultz]

On a side-note.... Roger Lewis might chime in on this, too....

My 1291 (basically the same horn except pistons instead of rotors) was a bit on the sharp side until Roger suggested I get an 'American' main tuning slide which is a dab longer than the one that came with the horn.

Might not directly fix the Db problem but might allow for readjustment of everything else if you currently have a main slide with 1" long ferrules. The 'American' slide has 2" long ferrules that essentially adds 2" to the main bugle.

[peterbas]

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