HN White/King CC string rotary CC Tuba with a new/old look

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Well, after giving it much thought, I decided to have my 1940 CC string rotary HN White/King CC tuba with its original (same serial # on body & bell!) det. 20" bell cut down to 16"--like Bell/Torchinsky/ Novotny had. With all my old King catalogs and talking to many folks, no one can give a reason why some of the CC King string rotary tubas had 20' bells and others 16." I of course gave respect to the process of "preservation/restoration/conservation" but I thought if people cut old York bells down from 22" to 20", the question is not why, but why not do it to the King? And it is then the bell size shown in the 1939-40 era HN White/King catalogs (optional upright det. bell of 16").....
My tech cut the bell down ( just a whisker over 16" now) and he was able to somehow use and reshape the original rim/bead too for use on the new sized bell!
The horn plays MUCH tighter, which I really really like!
A success!
Mark









engraving on front of bell


Serial# on body's 2nd rotor casing


Matching serial# of det. upright bell

[hbcrandy]

Mark:

One of the things that impressed about the your tuba when I played it was the resonance and largeness of the sound. I have never experienced that on a rotary valved, King CC tuba before. I hope that facet of the tuba has not been lost with the reduction in bell diameter?

[bort]

Nice "haircut"! Good looking tuba, can you post the "before" picture as well?

[bisontuba]

Mark:

One of the things that impressed about the your tuba when I played it was the resonance and largeness of the sound. I have never experienced that on a rotary valved, King CC tuba before. I hope that facet of the tuba has not been lost with the reduction in bell diameter?

Randy-
Still has the resonance and largeness but now even tighter with more core...
Mark

P.S.---as requested, here is a 'before' shot with the 20" bell...

----and after, with the bell now a 'hair' over 16"...

[bisontuba]

If it's been refinished before, that outer "pancake" metal may have been thin and weak. What you did may have gotten rid of "junky" metal.

I like the look. I'll trust what you say that it sounds nicer.

Hi Joe-
I hadn't thought of that but yes, according to its 'history,' it was completely overhauled/redone/refinished years ago by a very fine tech in Minnesota in 1980...
Mark

[roughrider]

Looks terrific and am sure it sounds terrific as well! Good Job!

[jeopardymaster]

Any changes to intonation? I would anticipate the pitch overall to go up a hair.

[Dan Schultz]

Mark... I know my King 'Monster" BBb rotary has a bell tenon of 7 1/8". Doesn't the CC have a tenon of about 6 3/8"?... same as a 12/2340/41 tenons and the 'regular' sousaphones?

[bisontuba]

Mark... I know my King 'Monster" BBb rotary has a bell tenon of 7 1/8". Doesn't the CC have a tenon of about 6 3/8"?... same as a 12/2340/41 tenons and the 'regular' sousaphones?

Dan-
You are correct!
Mark

[bisontuba]

Any changes to intonation? I would anticipate the pitch overall to go up a hair.

Hi-
I will play it more today, but pitch seems consistent as prior to the 'before and after' cutting.....
Mark

[bisontuba]

More good!!!
Knowing now the end result, would I still have had it cut? Absolutely, 100%!
Mark

[bort]

Was it not possible to get a smaller diameter bell from another source? No disrespect, but it seems a little crazy to me to risk anything with the original bell, unless it was impossible to get a smaller bell any other way.

Well, crazy until it works. If it works, then it was an awesome idea, and I'm glad I thought of it (joking about that last part, clearly ).

[bisontuba]

Was it not possible to get a smaller diameter bell from another source? No disrespect, but it seems a little crazy to me to risk anything with the original bell, unless it was impossible to get a smaller bell any other way.

Well, crazy until it works. If it works, then it was an awesome idea, and I'm glad I thought of it (joking about that last part, clearly ).

Hi-
I wanted that great old metal--same reason some York bells are cut from 22" to 20" instead of finding some 'other ' 20" bell. I had tried my 1929 White/King CC piston bell ( though the 19" bell is not original to the 1929 horn..sigh ) in the rotary horn and thought it was better than 20" -- even though only 1" difference, so I thought I'd 'go for it '....after all, there were 'models' out there--the horns of Bell/Torchinsky/Novotny, etc.--all 16" bells.....
Mark

[EdFirth]

If it hadn't worked out the way he wanted it would, I think, be easier and cheaper to get a 19in. bell for it. The 16in. bells are pretty rare and Kanstul, to my knowledge, has only made King bells for the "Monster" Bb's.Ed

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Forgot to mention--I had done this previously on a horn I once owned-- a 1920s CC HN White 4 string rotor tuba--had the upright det. bell cut down years ago ( by the same tech too) with great results, so it wasn't the first time....
Mark

[bisontuba]

Who is the tech?

It take a huge amount of skill and experience to properly cut down a bell.

My repairman's is Joe Clouse of J&E Inst. Service...
Mark

[tofu]

At the end of the day - if it improves the music making ability of the horn it's a positive and that is what counts to me. Plus, I think it improves the look/proportions of what was already an awesome horn. I think the fact that a 16 in bell was originally offered and that this was an original bell trimmed a bit still makes this an original horn/bell. A professional cut done by somebody who knew how to do it and not some hack job. I love original - and what Mark has done here makes far more sense to me in hewing to the original than to have a new bell made for the horn.

Mark you should change your screen name to Mr. KING!

[EdFirth]

I have often considered this. I have a "modernized" 1241 with the 19', 22', upright bells as well as the bell front and now that I know there's a guy who can do it I'll be on the next nice silver King raincatcher that comes down the pike. Ed

[Tubajug]

So going a step further: Would cutting down a 19" King 2341 bell to 16" improve a King 2341? Who is going to offer up their horn as a guinea pig?

I played on a King 1240 with a 16" bell (made from a clone bell). I never had the 19" bell to compare it to, just the recording bell. I liked it a lot. It had a more focused, more compact sound to my ears. It made it very tall though...the proportions looked odd to me. Here's a photo:


(for those that don't remember me and this horn, I bead blasted it myself, hence the odd finish)

[hbcrandy]

Years ago, Warren Deck sold me a King 16" bell that he had United Musical Instruments make for him. I eventually sold the bell to a man in Baltimore who had one of the older, 4 valved King Symphony Bass in BBb. His tuba originally came with a 22" bell. The 16" bell really focused the sound on that tuba.