F tuba!

[jdltuba]

So I'm currently trying a B&S PT15S with rotary valves and thought I'd hit up the forum about some tips and questions.

1). Yes, we all know the low ranges of Fs and Ebs aren't very good, but is there a way to fix it or is it just a matter of practicing.

2). Rotary valves or Pistons? I seem to find that I get great clarity with rotary valves but a little more umph with pistons. In an orchestral setting or audition, what would the judges be looking for? I know a lot of people play on pistons but does it really matter?

Thanks everyone for the tips!

[TubaNerd88]

As someone who has owned a PT-16 for a couple of years, it is possible to make the low register easy and effortless to play. It all comes down to, as you said, practicing.

As far as rotaries vs. pistons are concerned, it's honestly personal preference. I prefer the shorter throw with rotaries as opposed to the longer throw of pistons.

When it comes to orchestra auditions, every committee is different on what they are looking for, but most, if not, all of them look for execution of the fundamentals at the highest level, i.e. great time, great intonation, and understanding of the literature through your playing of the excerpts. (Remember, committees are not all low brass musicians. You will have woodwind musicians, string musicians, and even percussionists sitting on the committee.)

In hindsight, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is what you want out of your sound concept, and this comes down to trying out as many different horns and/or mouthpieces as you can. Find what works best for you and don't look back.

[Peach]

So I'm currently trying a B&S PT15S with rotary valves and thought I'd hit up the forum about some tips and questions.

1). Yes, we all know the low ranges of Fs and Ebs aren't very good, but is there a way to fix it or is it just a matter of practicing.

PLENTY of examples of modern Eb & F tubas with super easy low registers.
So one 'FIX' is to go with a horn with no problem notes/ranges in the first place.
Or you can practice that register on a 'difficult' horn and you'll probably work it out in the end.

Try them out. Pay offs for each.
A 95%-as-beautiful sound that is in tune with notes that speak well will count to most panels probably.

[eupher61]

a dent in exactly the right place does a remarkable job of opening up the trouble notes.

[Lingon]

a dent in exactly the right place does a remarkable job of opening up the trouble notes.

Absolutely true, but how to find that place?!

[Antontuba]

Practice is your best solution to a better low range.

Adam

[swillafew]

Practice makes the low range easy, and get the valves you find comfortable. I bought a B&S F tuba last year and it blows away other horns I have owned or tried. I am using the Kellyberg for a mouthpiece.

[eupher61]

a dent in exactly the right place does a remarkable job of opening up the trouble notes.

Absolutely true, but how to find that place?!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28732&p=249928&hili ... 89#p249928

[Lingon]

a dent in exactly the right place does a remarkable job of opening up the trouble notes.

Absolutely true, but how to find that place?!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28732&p=249928&hili ... 89#p249928

Yes I am aware of nodes, antinodes, stress, unstress and so on in the metal. Been there and realized some amazing behavior after resurrection of some accidently severely crashed horns that played much better after than before. But how to find the exact point where to hit? And how come that there exists instruments, from the makers in the classical brass instruments countries, that does not play in tune with great sound? Those masters that by some are said to make much better instruments than the Chinese factories

...you still have to approach F tuba as a different instrument...
...The Firebird was great (and I bought it), but I could tell I was in contrabass mode. But with regular practice, an already-great-playing instrument became easier to play and sounded much better/correct...

Very wise words that all and everyone using a couple of different instruments always should think of, but unfortunately not all do.
It is likewise true when the cimbasso enters the stage, that is another instrument family, and should not be approached as some sort of tuba on a stick etc.

Therefore most of us have drawers full of, and also always buy new interesting or as some makes them self, mouthpieces to check up to find the perfect mouthpiece that does fit the instrument, and not playing all instruments with the same MPC irrespective of what horn we use

[Rotaryclub]

I've played the PT10/15/16 stuff all my life, to me that is the ticket. It's the sound. That should be your main decision factor. Rotary F's are more traditional and greatly outnumber piston horns. Any German made rotary F (Miraphone, B&S, Meinl Weston) plays and sounds similar to me, and the low register will become effortless with a bit of work (just never as resonant as the big horn).

But the short answer is buy what is best for you, just be sure you know what you want, whether it's sound, ease, volume, etc.

[joh_tuba]

If more of us spent more of our formative years on a good 186(or similar) and spent more time learning to play 'down the middle'(and therefor seeking to discover the voice of that instrument) rather than playing the biggest horn possible(easily hides an unfocused flabby buzz) while trying to make it sound like a 6/4, this might still be a topic of conversation but I think we might be a little less inclined to think that the solution required magical abilities from the player or that rotary F tubas were uniquely problematic.

My opinion.. could be wrong.

[MaryAnn]

The reason way back when that I was hoping Rick would chime in on the dent was because of his knowledge of acoustics. If some math brain would put out a formula of where to dent your rotary F to get the nodes to work right, there would be a huge number of happy people out there. I also wonder why, with all the incredible instrument design expertise around, no one has incorporated this into an F tuba design, when it is clearly so simple to execute once the location is known. A little invisible bump on the inside and you are now selling a tuba that doesn't have the low range obstacles of other rotary Fs, and you'll blow the competition out of the water.
MA

[Donn]

Get a pair of magnets, put one into the bell and use the other one to draw the inside magnet down through the bows, where it ought to affect the air "stream" about as much as a dent. I don't think this will ever help a bit, but it's easy to do.

[eupher61]

It seems my anecdote in this area comes up way too often, and it seems self-serving. But, so what, right? That's what we do.

I bought my PT10 my first year of grad school. That and my Piggy, and adding a BBb souzie (Chloe) the next year, were going to be my setup for a long time. 5 years later, I sold the Piggy, it simply wasn't getting used. The F was my everything horn, unless it was a strolling or otherwise directionally challenged gig.

Now, 25 years later, I still have the same F, total of 30 years at Thanksgiving. It's still the tuba I'm most comfortable with in a point and shoot situation. I love playing my Martin, but it's only been 2 years and I'm not nearly as comfortable with it in other than dixie etc settings. It's not a "lot" of work, but it takes more than I'm able to devote to it at this point. The souzie is long gone, but now a BBb helicon has moved in, and it's already close to the F in terms of point and shoot feel. I still feel more secure by far with the F.

So what? It does take time. It takes dedication. Having the best tuba ever made, with exact pitch, perfect ergonomics, best imaginable sound, means nothing if it's not worked on and learned. "The Dent" made what to me is a fantastic playing tuba even better. I only have a couple of pitch burbles on it, and that's using 3rd valve for 1-2 on anything other than Ds, not including 5th valve combos. Even if I don't touch the F for a week, it's right there.

But it took time and dedication to get to this point. F tuba is a different animal. I've thought, at times, about selling it and getting something more point and shoot oriented, which a PT-10 certainly isn't, but there are too many other compromises involved.

[MaryAnn]

If you ever want to sell it let me know. I don't have the air for anything larger than an F, the fingerings match with the french horn that is my major instrument, and my hands aren't big enough for pistons. So if your dented F wants a new home....I'd b glad to give it one.