which tuba for jazz/ dixieland ?

[pecktime]

Hi everyone, I am a newcomer to this board (and tubas). I currently play string bass and bass saxophone in a few early jazz/ dixie ensembles and am looking for a tuba to 'complete the set'.

I am borrowing a friends Salvation Army Eb tuba to see if I like it and it's so much fun! Finally I have the power to compete with noisy bar patrons without an amp!

I would like suggestions/ tips for the sort of tuba I should be looking for.

I am open to sousaphones, but have mainly been looking at the 3 valve recording bell models like the King 1240 and Conn 20J. Maybe a Yamaha 621 like Bob Stewart if I can find one cheapish?

Oh yeah... I live in New Zealand, so tubas are not plentiful. Thanks for your help!

[Bill Troiano]

Unlike many other jazz tubists, I have a strong desire to stay in the key of tuba that I learned my skills on and learned many tunes. I truly admire those that can play jazz on multiple key tubas. Maybe I could do that if I worked at it, but I'm not willing to sit down and relearn everything on BBb or Eb. So, I play all of the jazz stuff on my CC tubas.

Especially since I moved to Texas, I've used my 621 CC. It's light, has a decent scale, has a good sound and has an easy low register. The problems with that tuba are that it doesn't project in a large, or noisy environment. And, it doesn't look the part. When miked, it's great and I feel like a rock star standing there playing it. I find that many expect to see a bell front tuba or sousaphone in these kinds of gigs. That immediately is a problem if you're playing a CC tuba. I used a CC King recording bell tuba with Guy Lombardo, but I sold it after I left the band. That would've have been a great tuba for me to use here in Texas. If I were to do a recording with my main band, and that could be happening soon, I would use my 621CC as it would be miked and mixed.

Dan Schultz recently posted about a CC sousaphone project he was working on, starting with a Conn 36K fiberglass sousaphone. Dan and I communicated on this and I specified a fiberglass sousaphone for weight and comfort reasons. I'll be 63 soon ( but I continue to pick things up and put things down to avoid deterioration.) I now own this sousaphone and I'm thankful to Dan for taking on this project. Dan did a great job, but I continue to tweak it. I've had no gigs through most of July and I recently had to return to NY for the funeral of my best friend, killed in a bicycle accident, but I have several gigs coming up in Aug. and I'll use the sousaphone. I digress. So, to me, a bell front tuba or sousaphone might project more and look the part better than an upright tuba. Your band mates can also hear better when your bell is pointing toward them. Bottom line - play wuddeva key tuba you're comfortable with. I like to stand when playing trad. jazz, so using a large tuba wouldn't make sense. Does this make sense after 2 Sierra Nevada Hoptimums?

[DHMTuba]

In a previous life I played at quite a few trad jazz / Dixie festivals, and I saw guys playing a wide variety of equipment. What really matters is how you sound on the horn. I've heard guys do just fine on just about any tuba-shaped object one could imagine.
FWIW the instruments I saw the most on the festival circuit were Conn 20js and the like, in other words big American-style piston horns with recording bells. If I ever got back into that circuit that's the sort of instrument I'd look for.
A good sousaphone or perhaps a helicon would also fill the bill - I did a tour with my Conn 14K stencil and it worked fine - and it's a sight easier to manage if you're doing any kind of walking! But there's something about the 2xJ series that floats the trad jazz boat. The Martin versions of that concept are especially sought after in the trad scene - I am still kicking myself for not buying one when I had the chance.

[Dan Schultz]

I normally use a King 1241 BBb with a recording bell for Dixieland gigs.

[bigtubby]

In a previous life I played at quite a few trad jazz / Dixie festivals, and I saw guys playing a wide variety of equipment. What really matters is how you sound on the horn. I've heard guys do just fine on just about any tuba-shaped object one could imagine.
...

[pecktime]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

[tofu]

I've used a variety of stuff, but prefer my Helicon - big fat sound, light (well balanced and easy to stand with for hours), wide dynamic range and can be heard and felt in any room. Easy to move around and play on stage. I have a sound in my head that I want to hear for this type of music which can only be delivered by a helicon, sousaphone or big recording bell tuba IMHO. Most gig spaces where you are going to play this type of music are not really going to be upright friendly.

[EdFirth]

If you are doing sit down Dixieland jobs(concerts) you can't beat Martin Mammoths or big Conns or really any big bell front horn. But having been in this field for 35 years the sit down jobs are few and far between. So as far as strolling jobs, many insist on a sousaphone or helicon. They sound great, just lay there on your shoulder, and are visually pleasing. But, many times I have found myself strolling on boats with low ceilings or other similarly confining circumstances so after playing everything on my King tuba for five years in New Orleans then coming to Central Florida and trying out different stuff I have concluded that if you don't want a house full of specialized horns that you end up playing once in a blue moon a medium sized tuba works well for everything. The Martins and Conns etc. sound great but they'll waste you on a strolling job with one hour sets. And realistically, I have four horns that have both bells and have used the bell front option maybe five times in the last 30 years. I notice many on here like bell front for outdoor concerts but, and this is just me, that implies community bands which implies no money and multiple tuba players etc. and that's not your question anyway. I have a house full of horns and 24 out of 25 times I play an old King 4 valve with the detachable upright bell. In the end it's more about playing at an acceptable level and knowing the style you're working in than fashionably correct equipment unless you just like having a lot of horns around. There are lots of Kings on Ebay. Best of luck to you. Ed

[eupher61]

whatever you can play best. I use whatever is appropriate/ I feel like using from my stable.

[Paul Scott]

If I'm going to be playing where there is a low ceiling AND the band isn't "strolling", I'll use the big Martin with a recording bell. In my opinion, this horn is the thing for "tuba as bass" situations. Also great in the open air if the band stays put.

If the band will "stroll" I'll tend to use a top action 3 -valve Martin with an upright bell using a stool. "Strolling" is not "marching", (playing and moving at the same time); "strolling" means the band walks to different locations on the gig. I say this lest you picture me doing something akin to Woody Allen in "Take The Money And Run".

A cheap (lightweight) bar stool works if you cut the legs down so that you can sit at a comfortable height. The older top-action Martins have an upper branch that you can get a good grip on. I use one that has seen it's share of dents since this environment has its risks and the top action avoids the risk of shearing off valve buttons/stems while maneuvering through crowds/chairs/tables. I avoid the big recording bell whenever I have to maneuver through crowds, especially when "playing tables" at country clubs. It's quite easy to bash into patrons, waiters, etc with a 24" recording bell!

I have developed my own strategies to avoid whacking folks with the stool (the things they don't cover in college.....). The stool can also serve as a makeshift table to put a plate on during a break, (most places will let you eat but want you to do it away from the patrons).

I recall doing a job that had a marvelous buffet, the kind with all sorts of hot food under those lidded trays. The country club was confident that the musicians would not eat since utensils were not made available. One intrepid musician simply dug in with his hands. We were never asked back of course, but it was worth it to see!

[swillafew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxPPBWiVBsc

[Steve Marcus]

I enjoyed playing a Conn 24J (which morphed into a 25J--see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62214) and years later, a 20J for Dixieland and trad jazz ensembles.

Four years ago, I sold the 20J to help finance the purchase and renovation of my Conn 48K Grand Jumbo sousaphone. That horn sounds marvelous for many applications including Dixieland/trad jazz. The core of musicians with whom I play that music are now accustomed to its big, warm sound that projects so easily and doesn't need to be miked in situations where smaller sousaphones or tubas might. When a musician who doesn't play with me frequently first sees the horn, the predictable conversation about its size, rarity, etc. usually ensues. When they first hear the Jumbo, the front line member's head almost always turns around. Admittedly, I do sometimes have to hold back the volume with the Jumbo, especially when the banjo takes a chorus. But that extra reserve also makes breathing easier when 4-to-a-bar time comes at a good clip. Since my body is still cooperating with the Jumbo's 52-pound weight, I use it for the occasional strolling gig. Lately I've taken to standing when I play it anyway (if the ceiling permits) to facilitate breathing.

Last night, however, I had a Dixieland gig directly followed by an orchestral rehearsal. Not wanting to bring 2 big horns (leaving one in the car), I played the Neptune 6/4 CC for both. I had to do a mental readjustment of playing the standard songs with CC fingering, but that didn't take long. I was amazed at how easily the Neptune spoke throughout its pitch range in this context. Its clarity of sound and ease of projection really lent itself to the solos that I took. I'll still go back to the Jumbo for the next Dixieland/trad jazz engagement, but it was an interesting comparison of "weapons" last night.

[Bob Kolada]

I use an F tuba with a wide rifle strap.

[Art Hovey]

Personal comfort is high on my list of priorities. If I am doubling on tuba and bass and if there is plenty of space on the bandstand I like to use my BBb helicon. But it gets heavy if I can't switch to bass now and then. On an all-tuba gig I like to use an upright tuba, and I bring my own chair. If it's a full band with a drummer I use a big horn. On a parade float with lots of amplifiers I attach a good snare drum mic inside my bell and plug it into a good bass amp placed behind my chair. But if it's a trio or quartet with no drummer or piano then a small tuba works better.
At festivals people like to see a big sousaphone, but that can be a hassle if you get stuck under a low ceiling or if there is no place to put it down.

[Donn]

At festivals people like to see a big sousaphone

Now we're getting to what matters. Tubas pretty much all work and sound like tubas, you want a tuba that looks right. OP is going to be playing for a New Zealand audience, have no idea what they're used to, but I think US audiences are kind of divided on the sousaphone. Strongly associated with half-time shows at sports events, stuff like that, dorky bell wagging, etc. That isn't meant to contradict Art, there is lots of love out there for sousaphones too, I'm just saying it isn't at all universal. Lots of players are happy to take something like that as a challenge, but if you want something with less or no baggage like that: lap tuba with upright bell, or helicon.

[Bandmaster]

Tuba? Who needs a tuba??? Why not play it on a cimbasso?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HMOKJ5gOw0

Dr. Steve Call of his group the New Hot Five Jazz Band playing Basin Street Blues with cimbasso at the Arizona Classic Jazz Festival .

BYW... I bought my BBb Holton 345 from Steve back in January 2004. He said he used to play it in his Dixieland Band and even took it to play in the Umbria Jazz Festival in Italy in 2000.

[tofu]

At festivals people like to see a big sousaphone

Now we're getting to what matters. Tubas pretty much all work and sound like tubas, you want a tuba that looks right.

Picking what horn I use based on looks is absolutely dead last on my list of priorities. In an un-miked festival setting you can blow your brains out on what ever upright you chose and nobody but the guys in the band are going to hear you. I've seen lots of guys who only owned one upright doing outside gigs playing for all their worth and they simply can't be heard. Even in miked settings I want to be able to move about on stage. Nothing more boring than everybody else in the band moving on stage and the tuba player sitting in his old man chair like a big sack of potatoes. And strapped on tubas I find uncomfortable. I personally have used all kinds of tubas in traditional jazz bands etc. (including a big upright BBb Besson comp when it was the only horn I had) but nothing beats a big old BBb Sousaphone or Helicon for ease of use, sound output and type of sound. They just make it a whole lot easier to get the job done. You can dig a house foundation with a shovel or a backhoe - personally I'd use a backhoe for ease of getting the job done right.