Small tubas

[tubadooba]

I'm a new tuba player after many years on bass 'bone, and I currently own a King 1135 3/4. I'm looking at inexpensive, small rotary tubas and the Wessex BBb Mighty Midget and the Schiller BBb Super Mini have caught my attention. Any opinions? I've heard some positive comments on the Wessex. Granted, these aren't Miraphones, but budget and space are overriding factors for this rookie. Thanks for any input. Matt

[iiipopes]

Lidl used to make a good BBb. Jupiter makes a 3/4 BBb that appears to be good, but I have no experience with it.

[tylerferris1213]

I've owned a Wessex Mighty Midget. They are a great conversation piece, and there is an initial "wow" factor when you play it. What I didn't like about it is that it was very easy to over-blow it and get edgy. I'd pick the horn you have now over the Mighty Midget for practical use. It would be well worth it to start saving up for a better 3/4 horn with 4 valves than to buy a Wessex right now. That is my personal opinion.

[bort]

Good question -- it seems like in BBb or CC, there is a real lack of good quality 3/4 tubas. As the trend has been "bigger is better," it seems like the 3/4 tuba has kind of fallen off the map, especially for rotary tubas. One reason might be that a lot of serious players end up using an Eb or F tuba instead of a 3/4 tuba.

That said, you'd probably be best off buying an actual 3/4 sized tuba, and not one of the "mini" or "midget" tubas. Those seem to have some kind of purpose, but there's also quite a bit of novelty involved. That is, if I were trying to learn to play tuba, I'd rather use something that looks and sounds like a tuba. (I don't do well with qualifications like "for the size" and "for the price." )

A few options you could consider looking for on the used market, although none of these are common:
-- Miraphone 184 BBb
-- Lidl BBb
-- Cerveny?
-- St. Pete 201
-- Something Chinese...?

The St. Pete isn't a 3/4 tuba, but it's not gigantic and is one of the lower-priced rotary tuba options. They can be pretty decent.

Also, I know you said rotary, but I think the best option in this category is a piston valve tuba, the Olds O-99. You can usually find 3-valve versions pretty cheap (under $1,000), and the 4-valve versions are a bit more, but probably still under $1,500. People call them "7/8 size" tubas, which means they are a little bigger than the usual small tuba, and a little smaller than a full-size tuba. I had one a long time ago, it sounds nice and it's easy to play. Oh, and it holds its value, in case you want to change later on. I'd recommend giving it a look, unless you're truly interested in only rotary tubas.

[Matt Walters]

If you want a tiny, 4 rotor BBb tuba that has guts and plays well in-tine, do not overlook the Cerveny CBB471 "Junior" BBb tuba that is available from any Cerveny dealer. http://www.dillonmusic.com/p-20064-cerv ... -case.aspx" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
And forget about trying to find one used. Weren't many sold and the people who bought them are in love. Check out that left hand hook on the side away from the bell. It makes a great strolling tuba.

[Donn]

Weight 15½ lbs, on that Cerveny.

I wonder ... if not really looking at a specific contrabass tuba career in the long haul, it might be worth thinking about an Eb bass tuba, where the small size is natural. And thanks to tuba players' general distaste for small things, a natural size Eb tends to be in little demand and hence more economical.

[Wyvern]

For your specific requirements I would probibly recommend our Mosel BBb tuba over the Mighty Midget
http://www.wessex-tubas.com/bbb-lightweight/

Only 15lb and really does produce a good sound. We have customer in the Swedish National Guards Band who loves one of these. Do contact me at Jonathan@Wessex-Tubas.com" target="_blank if you want to know more.

Note the 'Schiller BBb Super Mini' is not a tuba at all, but euphonium pitch.

[DPlander]

Kanstul 902 Series. 3/4 Sized horns that really have a good sound.

[iiipopes]

If you want quality in a smaller tuba, the Meinl-Weston Model 11 is the choice. But it is not inexpensive, and may now be a custom order, since I did not see it on the M-W website. An friend of mine who is a high school band director and bass trombonist prefers his M-W 11 over any other tuba when he has to double.

[Donn]

For your specific requirements I would probibly recommend our Mosel BBb tuba

FYI, a Tubenet member offers for sale what looks like the model for that tuba, a Meinl-Weston 186. In the For Sale section. Used, but in what looks like real good condition, and more than the Chinese version but apparently some flexibility there.

You're in California, might be fun to get over to the hornguys.com location where you could look at their Lidl. Check first, I suppose.

[The Big Ben]

If you want quality in a smaller tuba, the Meinl-Weston Model 11 is the choice. But it is not inexpensive, and may now be a custom order, since I did not see it on the M-W website. An friend of mine who is a high school band director and bass trombonist prefers his M-W 11 over any other tuba when he has to double.

FYI:

This MW 11 was for sale here on TubeNet in April 2014. That was a few months ago but there is no indication that it has been sold.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=60723" target="_blank

[bigtubby]

If you want quality in a smaller tuba, the Meinl-Weston Model 11 is the choice. But it is not inexpensive, and may now be a custom order, since I did not see it on the M-W website. An friend of mine who is a high school band director and bass trombonist prefers his M-W 11 over any other tuba when he has to double.

A year or so ago I began a serious search for a 3/4 BBb tuba. Bought a boatload of them on eBay and came very close to buying a Meinl Weston 11 from a fellow Tubenetter. Before that happened a MW 10 (3 valve version of the MW 11) presented itself on Craigslist ridiculously cheap so I bought it. At that time I still owned a King 1140 and the MW differed very little in terms of tone/timber (in general for that matter) from the King. MW 10/11 bore == .630 vs King 1140 == .640 so no great surprise.

Not long afterward I lucked into a tuba that is far and away the best 3/4 tuba I have ever played: A Schuster & Co. Army model. Probably not a lot of them have escaped the scrap drives for two world wars but if you can find one of these jump on it! Relatively large bore of .728" (18.5mm) pretty well does away with the trombone voice of most student model 3/4 tubas. Intonation is excellent and narrow slots make it very easy to play.

Perhaps someone can find one and have Jinbao build a copy. Top one in the photo, and yeah I had to fabricate a 4th valve slide for 1+3 instead of the original 2+3 but it was absolutely worth it.

[tubadooba]

Thanks to all for the input. My 1135 will be fine for the meantime. I hadn't played tuba since HS 35 years ago, but picking it up again has been easier than I hoped. Playing in a local community band and happy as a clam! I might consider the "Mosul" as a follow-up horn. Sounds like a more practical option. Play on and play low, everyone. Matt

[iiipopes]

What mouthpiece are you using? If you are using a bowl mouthpiece, like a Bach 18 or 24AW, I would suggest a deeper funnel cup, like a Conn Helleberg 120S (but not deeper or larger in diameter or throat because it's all the small bore can handle) gets the most out of these 3/4 horns, and also tempers the grainy voice they can have in the low register.

[tubadooba]

What mouthpiece are you using? If you are using a bowl mouthpiece, like a Bach 18 or 24AW, I would suggest a deeper funnel cup, like a Conn Helleberg 120S (but not deeper or larger in diameter or throat because it's all the small bore can handle) gets the most out of these 3/4 horns, and also tempers the grainy voice they can have in the low register.

Hello iiipopes. I'm using a Schilke 67 I've had since highschool. I was wondering if a smaller mp, like a Bach 18 might be good for my tender rookie chops?

[iiipopes]

No! The 18 will make the horn sound shallow and trombone-y. Quite the contrary - you already have a very fine mouthpiece for your tuba. I wasn't going to recommend Schilke because they are more expensive, and people either love them or hate them, because their backbores have a different taper, but since you already have one, you are good to go! -- You don't happen to play a Schilke 59 or 60 on your bass bone, do you?

From the Schilke Website: "67...Similar to the "SH" model, but slightly larger. The contour is also similar to the #66 but offers improved tonal response." And yes, it has good tonal response. (SH means, "Schilke Helleberg," and it is similar to the Conn Helleberg 120S; Schilke also claims their model 66 is designed from an "original," claiming they have a mouthpiece actually played by August Helleberg from which the 66 is supposedly derived. But I digress....)

I was in my local music store a few years ago, and the retired band director who taught low brass privately at the store had his Reynolds Contempora 3-valve tuba in the shop (The Contempora is similar to your King 1135's big brother, the King 2340). I asked to try it. He had a 24AW and the tuba sounded thin. I asked if they had a tuba mouthpiece with a deeper cup under the counter. They offered up a Schilke SHII, which is also similar to your 67. I put it in, and the tone had much more richness and fundamental. The teacher was surprised. His exact comment was, "I didn't know that tuba could sound that good!"

Oh - and the mouthpiece, having been made so long ago, was probably personally made by Scott Laskey, a recognized expert in tuba mouthpieces.

So stick with your Schilke 67. It matches your horn very well, indeed!

[Bob Bigalard]

Get a real 3/4 size tuba instead of a "mini" or "travel tuba." It will get a lot more serious attention.

[Donn]

Or since he already has a 3/4 BBb, maybe the last thing he needs is another one. It sounds like the urge has passed for the moment, anyway. I predict that his next tuba will be full size, whatever that means. The search for the perfect small tuba is over, because the odds of ever finding anything remotely like bigtubby's wildly cool Schuster Army are so infinitesimally small.

[tubadooba]

No! The 18 will make the horn sound shallow and trombone-y. Quite the contrary - you already have a very fine mouthpiece for your tuba. I wasn't going to recommend Schilke because they are more expensive, and people either love them or hate them, because their backbores have a different taper, but since you already have one, you are good to go! -- You don't happen to play a Schilke 59 or 60 on your bass bone, do you?

From the Schilke Website: "67...Similar to the "SH" model, but slightly larger. The contour is also similar to the #66 but offers improved tonal response." And yes, it has good tonal response. (SH means, "Schilke Helleberg," and it is similar to the Conn Helleberg 120S; Schilke also claims their model 66 is designed from an "original," claiming they have a mouthpiece actually played by August Helleberg from which the 66 is supposedly derived. But I digress....)

I was in my local music store a few years ago, and the retired band director who taught low brass privately at the store had his Reynolds Contempora 3-valve tuba in the shop (The Contempora is similar to your King 1135's big brother, the King 2340). I asked to try it. He had a 24AW and the tuba sounded thin. I asked if they had a tuba mouthpiece with a deeper cup under the counter. They offered up a Schilke SHII, which is also similar to your 67. I put it in, and the tone had much more richness and fundamental. The teacher was surprised. His exact comment was, "I didn't know that tuba could sound that good!"

Oh - and the mouthpiece, having been made so long ago, was probably personally made by Scott Laskey, a recognized expert in tuba mouthpieces.

So stick with your Schilke 67. It matches your horn very well, indeed!

Yes, I use a Schilke 60 for my bass 'bone.. Great rim. Thanks for the advice on the 67. Working on centering my tone and breath support. My buddy tells me to put more meat in the 'piece. Thanks again.

[Wyvern]

Perhaps someone can find one and have Jinbao build a copy.

I would have to be convinced of the need to make another model 3/4 large bore rotary BBb tuba - our Prague tuba very well fulfils that requirement and plays so well I cannot think would be bettered
http://www.wessex-tubas.com/pocket-kaiser/