Tuning slide trigger for sousas?

[J.c. Sherman]

a) What Bloke said...
b) It's easy enough on most sousas to access the 2nd slide to correct B... not much need top adjust anything else. Kings practically tube themselves

[timothy42b]

I spent 2 1/2 hours today rigging up 11 sousaphones with fishing line to keep high school students from over pulling the 2nd valve slide on their yamaha sousas on Cb, and it got me thinking...

A high school where the students actually pull slides sounds like one with a pretty solid instruction program.

Is this really that common?

[bort]

I can count on zero hands the number of times I ever pulled a slide on a Sousaphone while playing it. While it might make things a lot more in tune, it's just awkward as hell. I guess it's worth a shot, but I can't picture a whole line of Sousaphone players pulling slides and pushing them back in with their forearms.

I also think it's EXTREMELY rare to have a set of Sousaphones in that condition, even at the college/university level. It's not to say that people don't take reasonable care of them, but when an instrument lives outdoors, "stuff" happens.

[robcat2075]

this one doesn't have any slide pulling, it's just a great stand tune the kids are excited to play, even more than the pop stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuuP0PvZZQs" target="_blank" target="_blank

Never mind Sousaphone slide pulling... I'm wondering what is the function of three not-entirely-in-sync conductorettes for a marching band? It's purely ornamental, right?

[iiipopes]

The position of the 1st valve bow at my 1923 Conn 40K Sousaphone is perfect for pulling with the left hand, like I use to do it with my 3j. But the pullable part of this bow is at the other side, at the bottom. What a pity....

I can count on zero hands the number of times I ever pulled a slide on a Sousaphone while playing it.

You could probably make a trigger really easily... but then why risk more problems? I like my King Jumbo, it has all top slides (like the old Conn Jumbo), but it lacks a top first slide.

The solution to all of these issues is to have the upper bow of the 1st valve circuit converted to a pullable slide. It lays right under the left hand and is easy to use. I have done this, if it wasn't there already, to every souzy I have played outside of school, both to my own horns, and with permission of the owners of the others once I demonstrated how much better the intonation is. Almost all Conn souzys and helicons are amenable to this, as the upper loop is long enough and wide enough to grasp easily.

Remember to set the 3rd valve slide long so that 2+3 is in tune, and then with just a slight pull on 1, 1+2 is not the hair sharp it can be, and with a good pull on 1+3, and a longer pull on 1+2+3, the problem pitches are in tune. And if a person really wanted to take advantage of everything the 1st valve circuit has to offer, take a 1/4 inch off each upper outer leg of the 1st valve circuit, and then a player can push for 1st valve 2nd space C to get 20K's in tune. Of course, Kings and Olds/Reynolds don't need this. There is no need to bother with the 2nd valve, since the only real use I have ever found for pulling or triggering the 2nd valve is for 2+4 notes in concert band, where 4 needs to be tuned the perfect 4th down, and not flat. It is in the middle and difficult to control without fiddling, where the 1st valve slide is an easy grasp.

I am not a fan of main tuning slide triggers for high school students. Most need some sort of "anchor" to get relative pitches in tune, and a main trigger slide will just result in tuning mayhem by the end of the piece, or concert, or marching show, or parade.

And who in their right mind writes extended Cb's 1+2+3 for sousaphones? There is so much good literature out there, my band director in school specifically would send back to the publisher any piece that had such idiocy for brass, or that would dwell over the break incessantly for woodwinds.

[Donn]

this is continued from the previous page, but you get the idea

I don't think anyone doubted the existence of that Cb, it was more like questioning the judgement of a band director who would buy a piece with problems like that in it. I have no opinion myself; I have been to Texas a couple times but had no contact with school band programs at any time, but my impression is that these programs take place in the context of a different reality where our experience is no guide.

[toobagrowl]

The 1+2+3 combo is gonna be sharp on any 3-valve sousa or tuba. What works for me is to set the 2nd and 3rd valve slides out a little -- 2nd slide out about 5/8", the 3rd valve slide out maybe 3/4" or so. That works for me on most sousas; though it varies to certain degrees, depending on make/model. Those Yamaha sousas are very in-tune, much like the King sousas. Your kids sound pretty good on 'em in the vid. Make sure they are playing in the center of the pitch, with the 2nd and 3rd slides set out a little, and that low cb should be decent without having to pull while playing/marching.

[ppalan]

Bloke, you may be on to something but the band would probably need to be on skates or...

[bort]

Another thought -- is there any such thing as a compensating sousaphone? Or would it just be too heavy/no room for all the tubing?

[pjv]

Besson made them; really heavy. I believe the Bb model is 798 en Eb 796.