Switching From Tuba

[Aezion]

So I'm currently talking to my band director about switching from tuba to bari sax. I decided that if I do, I would try to get the most help I can with my resources. So being of the current generation, I decided to use this nifty thing called Google to try and find items related to it. I came across this site and found many players who switched from other instruments to tuba. I was wondering if I could possibly get some advice over the change such as playing, fingering, practicing, etc.? Just about anything you can think of. Thanks!

[Donn]

Good idea to go to Google, you'll be able to find lots of stuff once you get the hang of it.

[Aezion]

Good idea to go to Google, you'll be able to find lots of stuff once you get the hang of it.

Thanks, I guess. I am just for the most part worried about how well I am going to do on it

[Aezion]

Not sure if posting on a tuba site will give you good advice for baritone sax. But from one who plays everything, use 2.5 reeds and don't break them. The bigger the reed the more expensive...

Well, at first I thought about how many people on here could actually help. Then I found a string of people who switched from woodwind to tuba on this site, and/or played both, and thought maybe some of them could post things such as differences in between the playing, etc.

EDIT: Also any particular reason as to why to go with the 2.5" and not a softer one?

[Aezion]

Just to cover all of your points: I understand what you are saying with the reeds, and hopefully the rest of what you are saying. With the reeds, I believe them to be a personal playing preference, and so I would have to try out all of the sizes personally to figure out what is best for me. On the working my way down, I understand that as well and would be willing to do that. The reason I said bari is due to the type of music played in band is more similar than alto and bari, for both bari and tuba have the bass line. The bari sax keys and instrument would depend on which one my band gives me, so I can't do a lot over that. I was in choir back in middle school and elementary, and so I can read the treble clef, since I learned it before bass clef. As for the round or direct sound, it also depends on the song a tuba plays in my experience playing songs. For jazzy songs or real bass guitar or violin parts, it would be round, but I have had a few pieces in which I was told to direct the sound that it hit and reverberated like a brick wall, and not a tubular train. And thanks for the last tip When I do make the full switch, I am signing up for weekly lessons, and having the people of my family who played sax help as well.

[Donn]

OK, here we go, bari advice on Tubenet. We'll see how this turns out. I play bari. (I actually started on bass saxophone and worked up to baritone, now playing more tenor.)

What reed do you need? Well, the first thing that's going to come up here, is what mouthpiece are you going to attach the reed to? Not just the model, but also the facing number, most mouthpiece models come in several choices of facings. This is the curved part of the mouthpiece opening, that the reed vibrates over. The differences in this curve has a lot to do with why there are different reed strengths. The only reason 2½ seems like a safe bet is that there's a good chance the mouthpiece you'll be issued will be in about that range, but if we could easily be wrong about that. Luckily reeds are not super expensive, so you can more or less ignore the advice you have gotten by asking tuba players how to play bari sax, get a variety of reeds and figure it out yourself. Or check with a teacher or your band director or whoever is at hand to answer questions like this.

[Aezion]

Thanks. I just mostly asked this site because there are people like you and lost, Donn. I thought that some of you could tell me differences between the two etc. I plan on eventually playing both, but for right now I wish to focus on the bari.

[Dan Schultz]

Treble clef parts transposed for Eb read the same as bass clef parts except for adding two flats when reading bass clef. However.... as far as the articulation goes... bari sax parts are no more challenging than tuba parts. Go for the alto sax (which is also Eb) if you want to really learn something.

I wish I would have spent more time reading parts other than just tuba parts over the last fifty-plus years. I would probably be a much better tuba player today.

[Aezion]

@Bloke- Thanks. That clears up a lot, and describes to me just how hard the transition is going to be. Haha.

@TubaTinker- Thanks. As lost said earlier, I will probably start practicing with an alto, and be moved downward since the bari sax and tuba parts are so similar.

[LJLovegren]

Great that you want to branch out. Some people stick with one instrument for a lifetime - others enjoy learning and performing on a variety of instruments.

On your first instrument, you must learn 1) the instrument and 2) to read music. Your second instrument is easier because you already read music (you may need to learn a new clef). A second instrument in the same family can be very easy if the sound is produced in the same way and the music is transposed, e.g. trumpet to baritone (treble clef).

Woodwinds have basic scales in C or F (bassoon), C and F (clarinet) plus reedless, single & double reeds and the whole family in different sizes (although music for most is transposed).

Bowed strings of the violin family are similar with 4 strings tuned in 5ths and similar bows. Viols are tuned in 4ths and viol bows are made and held differently.

I won't go into fretted strings, altho bass guitar is very similar to bass viol.

Remember the gigs and the money for instrumentalists are for guitar players.

Many tuba players learn the equivalent instrument from the other families - bari sax, string bass and bass guitar.

It's always handy to know your way around a piano keyboard - reading treble & bass clef at the same time.

Don't forget to apply your musicianship to singing, both solo and choral. Singing will make you a better instrumentalist. If you can sing it, you can play it. (Check out the Mnozil Brass version of Bohemian Rhapsody.)

Once you have all that figured out, you can learn
> historical instruments including natural horns and trumpets
> arranging and composing
> conducting
> recording technology
> the music biz in general

[ghmerrill]

I played saxophone for about 15 years (starting in 6-th grade with an alto, and then moving to tenor in high school). After many years (and having drifted away from it) I decided it was a terrible instrument, and when I returned to instrumental music in my 40s it was with a tuba.

However ... I realized that if I'd figured out, in my youth, that the baritone saxophone was indeed the VERY BEST of the saxophone series, I probably would have stuck with it. I believe it to be the most versatile of all the saxophones, and the most "useful".

The problem with saxophones is that they are -- inherently -- terrible instruments. There are many saxophone jokes, of course, but my favorite is the old "What's the difference between a saxophone and a lawnmower?" The answer is "You can tune a lawnmower." It's funny because it's so true. I still recall going to my first (private) lesson with a master's student from Eastman (who happened to live in my little NY State city) when I was in junior high school. He was a student of Sigurd Rascher (don't ask, just Google it). I walked in, got out my old used Selmer alto (originally rented), and sat down. He picked up this old Buescher that had MASKING TAPE on EVERY tone hole! I asked him what the deal was, and he said "It needs to play in tune." There you have it.

If you switch to bari sax, be sure you get an instrument that PLAYS IN TUNE. There aren't any slides to pull (well, maybe one on a bari), and what you pay for in a saxophone is intonation. Without it, you're just making noise -- as too many saxophone players do.

[Donn]

The problem with saxophones is that they are -- inherently -- terrible instruments.

And in this, they're quite similar to the conical brass family to which the tuba belongs. The analogy is real close with intonation. Some tubas are pretty bad, some play more in tune than others, but none is going to play perfectly in tune for you, you have to make it happen.

I think if baritone sax were the most useful member of the saxophone family, there would be more baritone saxes. One thing baris are good for is making a whole lot of racket without really being heard. In a band with drums and other loud stuff going on down low in the frequency range, the bari can get rather drowned out; effective use in contexts like this is more staccato bursts than sustained tones that are just going to add to the noise level. Hence it typically works to give it the bass line, which is great stuff if you don't mind being the non-essential /might-as-well-be non-existent member of the bass section.

[Zoop Soup]

I switched from bari to BBb tuba. PM me if you want

[ghmerrill]

And in this, they're quite similar to the conical brass family to which the tuba belongs.

In my personal experience with regard to tunability of any given instrument of each type, this is not even close. If you actually have experience playing a saxophone, I don't grasp how you can say this. But maybe you're just a lot better at it than I was.

In addition, in virtually any band in which the saxophone section is not made up of professionals, all you need to do is listen to the process and results of the section tuning, compared to the tuba section (whether professional or amateur). The physics of the instruments dictate the parameters.

I think if baritone sax were the most useful member of the saxophone family, there would be more baritone saxes.

Well, no. In part this has to do with how music (ensemble music from duets through trios, quartets, and beyond into bands and orchestras) is scored for saxophones. And in addition, baritone saxophones are big, heavy, and clumsy to transport. It is, in fact, more unwieldy than a lot of tubas, and it is easier and less expensive to get a decent used playable tuba than to get a decent used playable baritone saxophone -- not to mention ongoing maintenance costs of each. The weight and unwieldiness pretty much leaves out the girls in at least the early years. And my guess is that you'll find MANY fewer female bari sax players than female tuba players.

In a band, bari sax can fill in for a basoon (and very often does -- in fact, the bari sax part will often double the basoon in various sections of a piece). It can cover many tuba parts in the absence of a tuba. Likewise for trombone to some degree, and euphonium. The soprano, alto, and tenor members of the family can't. A skilled player, capable of the extended range, can cover parts in at least the octave above the standard range -- and much more easily than this technique can be used in the higher members of the family. All of that is part of what I mean by "useful". If you haven't done it, then you don't know.

One thing baris are good for is making a whole lot of racket without really being heard.

I think you've just had some bad experiences -- not uncommon. It is traditional in schools (I mean middle and high schools) to hand the bari sax to the least capable player (or to the bassoon player!). In those contexts to a significant degree, the bari is the "oompah" contributor in the section. But that isn't a measure of its capabilities or possibilities -- only a comment on the people who often play it.

In a band with drums and other loud stuff going on down low in the frequency range, the bari can get rather drowned out; effective use in contexts like this is more staccato bursts than sustained tones that are just going to add to the noise level. Hence it typically works to give it the bass line, which is great stuff if you don't mind being the non-essential /might-as-well-be non-existent member of the bass section.

That sounds like a direct attack on the bassoon. There are at least two bass sections (and not "the bass section"): brass and woodwind. Each has something different to contribute. Composers and arrangers seem aware of this.

[martintubadouglas]

Hello

I was on here about something else and I saw your post and thought - I did that! So, for what it's worth, here's my story about switching to bari sax.

My main reason for switching was the deterioration of my tuba playing. I had been a reasonably successful professional tuba player until in 2002 it appeared that I 'caught' focal dystonia. Ok, I know it's not like that, but I'll put up a separate post about this in the future. Back to the sax - I wanted a tuba substitute which did not require a brass embouchure. Options were limited and bari seemed to be the most achievable. First step involved my family cashing together and buying me a Jupiter bari (with low A). I'm very grateful to them - they could clearly see how badly affected I was having no musical outlet. It probably would have been sensible for me to have at least tried to blow one first… I was lucky though - the sax turned out to be good (notwithstanding all the comments about intonation - good intonation isn't 100% to do with the instrument just like on brass of course). I had a lesson from a friend to get me started and off I went.

I have to say, embouchure and technique-wise, I didn't encounter any problems. Without wanting to invite pelters from any of our woodwindy cousins, I'd say the basic embouchure involves not letting air escape round the mouthpiece, whilst not getting in the way of the reed. Certain similarities with brass include obvious stuff like not puffing your cheeks out! Don't take my advice tho - seek suitably qualified woodwind assistance! But in the main, I found the process very straightforward. My practising mostly involved playing Bach 2 part Inventions with my trumpet player friend and 'helping out' at a high school big band. Fingering and general manual dexterity was my biggest concern, but I actually found it quite intuitive as each hand sort of corresponds with the equivalent brass fingering. Sort of, but not quite… My brain made a connection without much conscious involvement on my part!

I'm not proud of this, but I do virtually no practice on my own because I'm back on the tuba and use every opportunity to make nasty noises on that and I don't suffer any loss of ability between band practices. I know I'd probably improve a lot more if I did practise and I'm certainly not advocating this approach, but my point is that a brass embouchure needs regular exercise to keep it in shape and - in my case - a bari sax embouchure seems to get by. I don't play high for long periods of time (that's not what you want a bari for, is it?) and I'm sure my face would implode if I tried to!

So in essence I'd say that my experience has shown tuba to bari to be a straightforward switch. I only wish that bari saxes had an extra few notes at the bottom end of the register. The characteristic sound comes into its own just before it runs out of notes! I would really love a bass sax, but that is a serious investment that my wife tells me I cannot justify right now! ;0)

Good luck with your new instrument. I hope it brings you the fun and satisfaction that I have had with my bari. Feel free to message me if you want to talk some more about this.

Cheers,
Martin

[Donn]

But maybe you're just a lot better at it than I was.

Why, thank you!

If instruments are to be judged by the most inept section that can be found, I have a baritone/euphonium section for you to listen to.

The weight and unwieldiness pretty much leaves out the girls in at least the early years. And my guess is that you'll find MANY fewer female bari sax players than female tuba players.

Actually, the way it's going I wouldn't be surprised if male players are a minority. I'm not really keeping track, and anyway this might be a generational fluke having something to do with Lisa Simpson, but there are plenty of women bari players.

In a band, bari sax can fill in for a basoon (and very often does -- in fact, the bari sax part will often double the basoon in various sections of a piece).

Well, now, that's useful!

It can cover many tuba parts in the absence of a tuba.

This is really what I'm talking about. I have the tuba part, most of the time, in a couple of bands where I play or have played bari along with a tuba. In these bands, in the absence of the tuba they can make it through rehearsal with only bari on the bass line, but it would never work for performance. One of the bands, given access to two microphones, will give one to the clarinet and the other to the tuba. I switched to tenor in that band, so I'd have something to do that mattered to anyone.

Look, I play bari. It is a fine instrument, but it can't be the "most useful" saxophone by serving as in inferior substitute for other instruments. Some bands make real good use of bari sax, many don't. We may be thinking of different kinds of bands (bassoon? what the heck?)