King sousaphone neck old vs new style

[P@rick]

Hi all,
The King sousaphone neck new and old style are quite different. According to this information you need an old style neck for serials before #999999:


I always thought that this type of mouthpipe branche was the new type, but the sousaphone I'm looking at has this branch with #891436 :


Now I have doubts on which type of neck to order.
Is there a way to recognize a new and old style version sousaphone without looking at the serial number?

Thanks!

[Dan Schultz]

The only thing confusing about the necks is that the old King is the same as the new Conn (except for the 20/22K sousas.

A new King neck should be the same as the old King.

[MrBasseyPants]

Here is a pic of the three King necks I have (had). The one on the left is an "old" King Sousaphone neck, the middle one is one I got with my Jumbo (which is incorrect...and looks to have been bent to that position for some reason), and a new style King neck is on the right. Until recently, I used the "new" King neck with my Jumbo because the middle one didn't work for me. However, I could only use one bit with it so I had to pull my tuning slide way out. The neck on the left is the correct neck for the Jumbos and the Giants (the 1271 for sure). At Purdue, the Giants and Jumbo all used the left necks, and the other King horns used the modern neck on the right. I don't know how well they worked with the plethora of King models, but that is how we did it then....I think most of the old necks have been lost in the last 15-20 years or so.

I am thinking your horn needs the neck on the right though, but I am not 100% sure. I thought the old style neck was more uncommon than the new style. I did trade my new King neck (that I got from Dan) to KiltieTuba for another old style neck...so my two ancient Kings have the right necks. From what year do you think this horn is from?

[P@rick]

...A new King neck should be the same as the old King.

But why is it that there are there two necks? One is a "King before serial #999999" and the other is a "King after 1985?"


My sousaphone is #891436 and from 1981. That would mean that i need model K191. Googling shows me that this model is indeed used on most older King sousaphones.

I am however supprized about the branch from the mouthpipe (shown in the first post picture). Older kings have other branches in general. Can anyone show me a picture from a brand new King sousaphone where you can see how the mouthpipe and branch is shaped?

[Dan Schultz]

...A new King neck should be the same as the old King.

But why is it that there are there two necks? One is a "King before serial #999999" and the other is a "King after 1985?"....

There are still two King necks available. They are the same overall length but one is 'high' and one is 'low'. Apparently they are pre and post 1985 without regard to different models.

It's nice to have choices. 'Old guys' tend to have shorter necks!

[NCSUSousa]

The sousa in your photo looks alot like this one that I presume to be 'New' based on the neck shown in the picture:

This image was taken from the current Amazon.com ad for a King 2350 sousa - http://www.amazon.com/King-Series-Sousa ... B000Y02LWQ.

This is a different main brace location compared to the 1960's King fiberglass sousas we had at NCSU. (Compare to this one: http://www.hnwhite.com/King/Low%20Brass ... 0Large.jpg)

[P@rick]

Thanks all!

After checking many Kings online it's clear to me that older Kings have indeed a wider loop in the main tuning slide together with 2 braces for the mouthpipe (one attached to the 1st valve tube and the other to the 2nd valve tube).
Newer Kings have the smaller loop in the main slide together with 1 brace for the mouthpipe which is located between both tubes from the 1st valve.

This different shape and brace from main tube could explain a different position from the receiver where the neck is inserted and thereby explaining why there are 2 necks.

You are right Dan. The overall length is the same for both so it's only a matter or ergonomics, but if one would fit you perfectly I'm sure the other would be uncomfortable.

It looks that I need the post 1985 neck (short vertical / long horizontal). I will try to find a way to test the ergonomics from both necks before ordering one.

[toobagrowl]

Caution: I'm gonna ramble

The old style and new style goosenecks should fit pretty much any King sousa, old or new. We had new style and old style goosenecks on our HN White and King Instruments King sousas back in high school. UMI was formed in 1985. The King sousas we had in high school started appearing in the band photos around the 1983-1984 season, so they were pre-UMI Kings, but definitely post-HN White. Sometime later, the band director picked up a couple extra HN White King sousas, including a King Giant. Before the King sousas, he had lacquered convertible/marching tubas; maybe Meinl-Westons.

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I have an old HN White King raincatcher, and the old style and new style goosenecks both fit. Same with the King sousas I played back in high school. As for the changes made to the King sousas over the decades, I actually prefer the bracing (especially around the gooseneck/upper mouthpipe) on the post-HN White sousas because the bracing is more robust -- I like and prefer the thicker bracing, round flanges, and half-circle brace around the upper mouthpipe better. The HN White sousas look a little more 'elegant', though. I have not played the newest Conn-Selmer King sousas with the detachable guts.
For reference, oldest-to-newest: HN White -> King Instruments -> UMI -> Conn-Selmer.