Another question thats been bugging me

[pg]

What is the difference between EEb, CC, F, to a BB Tuba?

A CC tuba is roughly a foot (or two!) shorter (total length) and the open note is a C instead of a Bb. So when the music calls for you to play a low C, you would play it open instead of 1&3 or 4. The Eb and F tubas are once again shorter and shorter still so that they play an Eb or F with no buttons pressed. In the American tradition, you need to learn new fingerings for each key'ed tuba since we don't transpose the tuba parts.

I'll let the others chime in on why one is better

--paul;

[Matt G]

BBb: Beginning band Tuba or Professional Contrabass Tuba for usage in German Orchestra Works with "Kontra..." at the top. German players as well as many other European folk use a BBb as the big tuba. Brass bands like to use these with uncomfortable valve set ups. BBb tubas can only have 4 valves or else you are a snob (5 valves) or a loser (3 valves).

CC: Contrabass for USA folk and some others throughout the world. Does the same exact stuff as a BBb, but with different fingerings. Use at all times until notes don't come out or the conductor throws a chair at you for playing too loud. Change mouthpieces or switch to your 6/4 F tuba. Must have 5 valves or else you are a second class citizen.

F: The German "do-all" tuba. A lot of pro players in Germany and other parts of Europe use the F. A lot. In the USA we tuba players use it when we should proably be playing euphonium. It does hide our predilection to drink beer better than the euph does. Five valve minimum. 6 valves suggested to be "the real deal". For use when we want to be "extra" musical.

Eb: The UK's "do-all" tuba. Very prominent in UK orchestras and brass banding. Strange valve set up because the water in the UK causes players to hear better from their right ear. In the USA we use the Eb when we want to live an "alternative lifestyle" to those uppity F tuba players. Can have 4 valves, but must have extra brass pretzels attached to the back of them. 5 valve Eb players are over-acheivers.

French C tuba: Really doesn't exist. Reportedly has 6 valves. To be renamed the "Freedom" C tuba. Play parts for these on a 6/4 CC tuba.

Euphonium: Picollo tuba. Used when tuba players want to be Maynard Ferguson/Jon Faddis. Also allows for us to play notes faster because the valves weigh less and are usually cleaner due to less usage. Only be a serious Euph player if you are a good shot with a 30/30 rifle. Must have 3 valves with one separate to be serious. If all four valves are too close you are just a wanna-be.


Hope this helps.

[JayW]

BBb: Beginning band Tuba or Professional Contrabass Tuba for usage in German Orchestra Works with "Kontra..." at the top. German players as well as many other European folk use a BBb as the big tuba. Brass bands like to use these with uncomfortable valve set ups. BBb tubas can only have 4 valves or else you are a snob (5 valves) or a loser (3 valves).

CC: Contrabass for USA folk and some others throughout the world. Does the same exact stuff as a BBb, but with different fingerings. Use at all times until notes don't come out or the conductor throws a chair at you for playing too loud. Change mouthpieces or switch to your 6/4 F tuba. Must have 5 valves or else you are a second class citizen.

F: The German "do-all" tuba. A lot of pro players in Germany and other parts of Europe use the F. A lot. In the USA we tuba players use it when we should proably be playing euphonium. It does hide our predilection to drink beer better than the euph does. Five valve minimum. 6 valves suggested to be "the real deal". For use when we want to be "extra" musical.

Eb: The UK's "do-all" tuba. Very prominent in UK orchestras and brass banding. Strange valve set up because the water in the UK causes players to hear better from their right ear. In the USA we use the Eb when we want to live an "alternative lifestyle" to those uppity F tuba players. Can have 4 valves, but must have extra brass pretzels attached to the back of them. 5 valve Eb players are over-acheivers.

French C tuba: Really doesn't exist. Reportedly has 6 valves. To be renamed the "Freedom" C tuba. Play parts for these on a 6/4 CC tuba.

Euphonium: Picollo tuba. Used when tuba players want to be Maynard Ferguson/Jon Faddis. Also allows for us to play notes faster because the valves weigh less and are usually cleaner due to less usage. Only be a serious Euph player if you are a good shot with a 30/30 rifle. Must have 3 valves with one separate to be serious. If all four valves are too close you are just a wanna-be.


Hope this helps.

GREAT STUFF!!!!!! Educational, accurate and funny all in one package

[Chuck(G)]

I had heard at some point in my education the following, and I'd love to get some expert validation or debunking as the case may be:

I'd be happy to give it a shot!

1. BBb is for band, CC is for Orch. Due to "fit" with the composers and the tendencies to either use flat or sharp keys. Similar differences could be described in Eb vs. F. (Easier to tune a CC tuba to a concert A than a BBb tuba???)

Actually, it's a little easier to tune a BBb or Eb tuba to A than a CC tuba. (A fingering is 12 (or 3) on a CC); 2 on BBb and Eb (low A is 24).

A C has less open tubing than a BBb, so it can have a somewhat lighter sound than a BBb. It has no particular fingering advantage in sharp keys (C# is the "funky" note, as opposed to B natural on a BBb--and C# is present in every sharp major key signature save G).

2. F Tubas are more "melodic" (given the same player) than C Tubas and thus are used more in solos. Actually from my experience, the style and range of the piece you are playing has more to do with the choice in instruments for soloing.

"Melodic" lies solely in the ear and head of the player. An F tuba has the shortest open bugle of all common tubas and so tends to have a lighter and more nimble sound. Upper partials are spaced a bit wider than a CC or BBb, so there is a bit more security in the high range. However, one pays for this with lots of valves required for in-tune low range playing. Most F players play a 5 or 6 valve instument.

3. The "flat" instruments are more prevalent in professional European ensembles than in professional US ensembles.

While it's true that the CC tuba holds considerable sway in the USA, the most common bass and contrabass tuba combination on the continent is BBb and F.

4. BBb tubas are what students learn first, because mostly they come from playing Trumpet. (Not me, I started playing Alto Sax, then Bari Sax, then Tuba).

Nope--Eb tuba would be far easier for retraining trumpet players as there is a decided similarity in bass clef and treble clef fingerings. Sousa made BBb tubas really popular; I suspect one of the reason that high-school players learn BBb tuba is so that they won't have to relearn fingerings for sousaphone.

What other "myths" are out there???

Dunno.

[Adam C.]

Matt, that post was inspiring and worthy of inclusion in the Tubenet Annals for all of history.

[Mark E. Chachich]

Matthew Gilchrest 's analysis should be put in the "Tips on Playing" section of Tubenet. This is an excellent piece that should not be lost, thank you Matthew!

Mark

[Charlie Goodman]

Hate to say it, austuba, but you didn't exactly read his post right.

[jmh3412]

While I agree with all that has been said regarding the use of BB and CC tubas, I do get a bit fed up with all the negativity regarding Brass bands and E Flats, let alone the use of compensating systems.

Having played a range of compensating and non compensating tubas - I just don't get this idea of "Stuffiness". Is there something wrong with playing a generally consistently "in tune" instrument??

As for weird valve combinations - soe of the more esoteric 5 valve layouts seem very odd and cumbersome - but as with all things instruments are very much a matter of personal taste.

I realise that European players tend to play Bass Tubas rather than contrabass instruments, although this is changing. What is more significant is the fact that most players often do not have a range of instruments to play on and consequently develop a technique to cope with the demands of the repertoire.

Admittedly by using different instruments, there are distinct advantages both in terms of timbre as well as range, but conversely there is much to be said for mastering and extending the technique on one instrument.

(Need I mention the fact that English bandsmen would not be seen dead playing a sousaphone or is that too contentious.......)

A poor relation from the UK

[smurphius]

Admittedly by using different instruments, there are distinct advantages both in terms of timbre as well as range, but conversely there is much to be said for mastering and extending the technique on one instrument.

May I just say, that that is one of the finest statements made in a long time.

I am nearing my senior year of college. I'm a little bit of what I guess you'd call a "late bloomer" in learning F tuba. I only own a CC, but have access to an F at my university. Personally, I just hate the thought of even picking the darn thing up!!

I have a great MW 2145 which is not too big, and not too small. I'd honestly much rather learn to adapt to different literature all on my CC tuba.


And Matt. Chiming in with everyone else, that is ENTIRELY a beautiful overview of the various pitched tubas. GREAT!!!

[Kevin Hendrick]

There is no market for a CC Sousaphone line.

'Fraid you're right about that, and it's too bad, really. I've played a CC concert horn for a long time now, and wouldn't mind having a CC sousie for the occasional outdoor and/or standing gig. Of course, we really don't have a tradition of "marching orchestras", either -- that'd be a sight, wouldn't it? Rank after rank of fiberglass violins and violas, a row of celli, one of bassoons and oboes ... and, of course, the tuba and double basses rolling along at the back ... sounds like something from Dr. Seuss ...

[tubeast]

By the way,people, why is it that you take the trouble to have special marching band tubas like sousaphones or shouldered tubas with special leadpipes? Over here in military music- and tuba country, helicons and the likes were common at the turn of LAST century (around 1900 AC, that is), but you won´t find ANY military or civil band marching with anything but their normal concert tubas. That would match the original sousaphone (raincatcher, as I learned from the RESIDENT GENIUS) with the bell pointing upwards. I use my helicon on carnival parades just to let it be heard, and I can tell you it´s NOT an ergonomic advantage to have your horn resting on ONE shoulder all the time.

[smurphius]

I think one of the reasons that we Americans use the bell forward sousaphones over concert tubas is for a simple reason. As has been mentioned in earlier posts, bands here in America ARE big. Consequently, a large tuba sound is needed.

Sousaphones are good in two ways for this.

Number one, the bell does face forward. Considering most uses for the sousaphone are outdoor settings, an upward bell tuba or helicon shoots the sound straight up. In a marching band for example of 250 members, which has 40 trumpets, if you have 20 tuba players whose sound is all going straight up and out of the football stadium, they'll never be heard. Same lies true in a parade down a city street. There's just nothing to bounce the sound back down to the listeners ears.

The other advantage to sousaphones over concert tubas is the size of the bell. They're HUGE!! This too helps in the projection area, making it again easier for the tubas to be heard.

Of course, the most important reason isn't about how the instrument plays at all. Sousaphones are an American tradition!!

Long love J.P.Sousa!

[Leland]

Sousaphones are good in two ways for this.

Add a third reason --

Rather than having the weight in front, it's relatively well-balanced on the shoulder. This is true for sousaphones and any marching tuba that both 1) is long enough, and 2) has a leadpipe that wraps around the right wrist.

No need for special harnesses -- just throw it on & go.