Report--New Baltimore Brass tuba rest

CJ Krause · Post by **CJ Krause** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:38 pm

Who has a pictureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?

scottw · Post by **scottw** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:14 pm

John Caves wrote:Just to clariry, does the BB stand adjust lower than the K&M stand? I tried a K&M stand it just didn't go low enough for me.

Shortness in the genes!!!!!!!!!!!

Sad to say, the answer is "no". It goes about a 1/4" ABOVE the K&M even after the K&M has been cut down the allowable 1". I got it home Tuesday night and compared them and was very unhappy to find this! Technically,their stand does go lower than the stock height of the K&M (by 3/4"), but not after you cut the K&M down the maximum 1". If it weren't for the other nice features, I would be most unhappy; right now, I figure I'm no worse off as to the height and I get a stand that's easier to transport and set up.

John Caves · Post by **John Caves** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:44 pm

Rats !

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:03 am

scottw wrote:
John Caves wrote:Just to clariry, does the BB stand adjust lower than the K&M stand? I tried a K&M stand it just didn't go low enough for me.
Sad to say, the answer is "no". It goes about a 1/4" ABOVE the K&M even after the K&M has been cut down the allowable 1".

I confess I don't get this at all. My new BB stand is about an inch lower than my (unmodified) K&M stand.

And I made a few pics just for Charlie.

Here's the height comparison. The K&M stand is as low as it will go, and the BB standard is clearly lower.

And here they are folded up. Ain't no comparison here. And you can take the top off and fit the BB stand into a DEG-stand pouch with room to spare.

Even though the BB stand doesn't look as rugged as the K&M stand, it is. It is not black, thin-wall aluminum like the DEG, but rather heavy-gauge steel. And that's also why it's just as heavy as the K&M stand.

Rick "apologizing for the funky colors" Denney

corbasse · Post by **corbasse** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:14 am

Joe Baker wrote:
KarlMarx wrote:Haven't orchestral tubas already many more rests, than they ever would want to?

Carolus Marximus Borificatus
Huh? Can anyone make any sense of this guys wacky lingo?
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who thinks Karl is funnier in English than gibberish

I actually liked the gibberish ones. They made sense, in Karl's weird and wacky way. It just took a few online dictionaries and guesses which languages he used to figure it out...

I like the look of the stand. Anyone coming to Europe soon who can bring a few of them?

John Caves · Post by **John Caves** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:33 am

Rick,
Thanks for taking the time to post the pics. I bought and tried one of the K&M stands last year, but couldn't figure a way to shorten it. I was hoping someone here would have found a way.

Thanks again!

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:10 am

Thank you Rick!

Those photos tell the story better than most company product sales brochures.

I also appreciate you mentioning that the BB model will fit in the DEG pouch. I like the DEG and especially the carry-inside bell pouch, but it is obvious that after about 18 months my stand is starting to wear in key areas fast. I know what I will replace it with now.

sinfonian · Post by **sinfonian** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:43 am

Thanks for the pictures Rick. Is the adjustment knob as sturdy as it looks? I know that I have to really tighten down my K&M sometimes to keep if from slipping.

CJ Krause · Post by **CJ Krause** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:11 pm

Thanks Rick

looks alot like the DEG, hope it is made better.

scottw · Post by **scottw** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:29 pm

Sad to say, the answer is "no". It goes about a 1/4" ABOVE the K&M even after the K&M has been cut down the allowable 1".

I confess I don't get this at all. My new BB stand is about an inch lower than my (unmodified) K&M stand.

Rick,
Please re-read my comment: I said that it was 1/4" higher than the K&M AFTER the K&M was CUT DOWN the allowable 1". That is to say, my present K&M is actually 1/4" LOWER than is my new BB stand; I see no way to shorten the BB stand.
Scott

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:41 pm

sinfonian wrote:Thanks for the pictures Rick. Is the adjustment knob as sturdy as it looks? I know that I have to really tighten down my K&M sometimes to keep if from slipping.

The knob is a little bit of an issue, but not really a problem. It's a standard, off-the-shelf 1/4"-20 thread with a plastic knob. You can break off the knob if you work at it hard enough (I think it would take external attach, like dropping the stand and hitting the knob on the edge of a chair). But it is very easily replaced, too. I think BB is looking for something even more bullet-proof.

As to locking the shaft in place, it's much better than the K&M. The shaft is heavy-gauge steel, and you won't deform it with any amount of tightening unless you replace the knob with a bolt and use a wrench. The finish is not the mirror-polished chrome of the K&M stand, so the lock bolt bites much better. It's not a clamp like the DEG and K&M stands, but rather a bolt that screws right against the shaft.

I've never had that clamp slip on a K&M, but I have had the clamp at the bottom that holds the tripod braces in place slip. When it slips, you end up with the center of the stand resting on the floor and the legs floating in air. I've had to honk down on that bolt to keep that from happening.

With the BB stand, once you set it at the height you want, you will only have to reset it if you sit in a chair with a different height. The tripod clamp on the K&M has to be loosened and tightened every time you fold and unfold the stand. Each leg on the BB stand is held to the bottom part (which is machined steel) with a spring. You fold the leg down, pull it out against the spring, and let it settle into a hole in that bottom part. No screws to fold and unfold, and it is highly secure. The springs and the roll pins that hold the springs are easily replaced and serviced.

I have two K&M stands, but this one is a better design.

Rick "hoping the descriptions make more sense with the pictures" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:45 pm

scottw wrote:Please re-read my comment: I said that it was 1/4" higher than the K&M AFTER the K&M was CUT DOWN the allowable 1". That is to say, my present K&M is actually 1/4" LOWER than is my new BB stand; I see no way to shorten the BB stand.

Right, okay. I misread it. Bottom line, if the inch you took off the K&M is enough, this one will also probably work.

Rick "who only needs it that low with those cheesy plastic folding chairs" Denney

scottw · Post by **scottw** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:51 pm

Rick Denney wrote:
scottw wrote:Please re-read my comment: I said that it was 1/4" higher than the K&M AFTER the K&M was CUT DOWN the allowable 1". That is to say, my present K&M is actually 1/4" LOWER than is my new BB stand; I see no way to shorten the BB stand.
Right, okay. I misread it. Bottom line, if the inch you took off the K&M is enough, this one will also probably work.

Rick "who only needs it that low with those cheesy plastic folding chairs" Denney

Always searching for just a little bit more leeway, but the K&M is just a little bit high for my leadpipe; I compensate by turning the horn a little more out of vertical to the left, but then the bottom bow "skids" on the saddle and it tips even more toward the left! As I said previously, the BB stand gets me no more advantage as far as lowering the horn in those "cheesey plastic chairs" into which I seem to be relegated, but the other design issues make up for this deficiency!

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:55 pm

CJ Krause wrote:looks alot like the DEG, hope it is made better.

Actually, I think it was in part inspired by the very first DEG stand that came out. That stand was made somewhat like a trumpet stand only bigger, with legs that folded down and locked in place rather than using a sliding tripod collar.

I bought my DEG stand at least 15 years ago, and it worked fine for lighter tubas. But it can't take the stress of a heavy instrument, and the heavy York Master did it in in less than a year.

My DEG stand (unlike the very first ones that came out) is made from very thin aluminum tubes, similar to the lightweight keyboard frames and microphone stands used in road shows these days. The feet are just rubber cups slipped over the tubes (and they slip off easily). The edges of the tubes cut up the rubber in short order. The saddle is molded plastic with a layer of closed-cell foam attached using double-stick tape-like stuff. The shaft is also very thin aluming tubing that will deform under clamp pressure, even with the all-plastic clamp screw. It's light, and it's find for small isntruments, for a while.

Of course, the DEG design varies over the years because it is made with off-the-shelf parts for microphone stands, etc.

Everywhere you see thinwall aluminum tubes on the DEG stand, the BB stand is heavy-gauge steel. Everywhere you see molded plastic on the DEG stand, the BB is machined steel. The rubber cups are replace by harder square-tube inserts. The saddle is made (for now) by K&M, using their later method of dense rubber molded around a cast metal part.

Don't confuse the BB stand with the DEG. But if you want the light weight of the DEG, this ain't it.

Rick "who wants to be able to stand on it" Denney

poomshanka · Post by **poomshanka** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:28 pm

Statman wrote:The only problem is as others said, it doesn't go down far enough.

Would the stand height be relative to the height of the chair? If so, you might want to consider something along the lines of what I use - a Roc-n-Soc drum throne. You can adjust that thing to a nice height, which might help compensate for the stand not quite going low enough.

Not the lightest piece of gear to haul around, but for me, it's been indispensible. With both the chair and stand being adjustable, you should really be able to get comfortable.

I also got the optional back rest...

WWBW sells them...

http://www.wwbw.com/Roc-N-Soc-Back-Rest-i105586.music
http://www.wwbw.com/Roc-N-Soc-MSG-Mac-S ... 1598.music

Or you should be able to find them at a local Guitar Center...

http://www.guitarcenter.com/locations/

...Dave

joh_tuba · Post by **joh_tuba** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:13 pm

I have a DEG stand that has been modified with a bicycle quick release type clamp for the height adjustment. If the BB stand used that kind of adjustment rather than the knob I think it would be pretty much perfect. By the same token if the DEG had a different design for locking the legs in the 'down' position it would pretty much be perfect. My one complaint about the DEG is the knob for locking the legs in position. Even when torqued down it doesn't hold the legs in place for an entire concert and once torqued down it's a royal pain sometimes to unscrew it enough to release the legs.

That being said.. the bicycle type quick release clamp is really a joy to use.

FWIW

dmmorris · Post by **dmmorris** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:22 pm

The Deg stand (w/ quick-release and grippy-padded-sock cover)....jez for reference.

It looks to me like this new Baltimore Brass stand is a LOT less bulky....that'd be nice!

Jay Bertolet · Post by **Jay Bertolet** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:51 pm

I'd love to put the saddle and locking mechanism pictured by dmmorris on the newer DEG stand. I feel that would be about perfect. That's because the newer design DEG uses a cotter pin secure method for the lower legs. It doesn't employ that screw clamp assembly that eventually compresses the center tube to uselessness and, as dmmorris described, has a tendency to slip if not over tightened. Nice job, dmmorris, and elegant and effective solution to the design!

poomshanka · Post by **poomshanka** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:16 pm

scottw wrote:No, at 5 lb.,I don't want it anywhere near my bell, even if it's padded. I just carry a pouch with it and a folding stand--not a problem!

Just ran across this on DEG's website:

http://www.degaccessories.com/accessori ... e=tubarest

Personally, I might like it even a little more padded than that, but that's just me. The "idea", however, seems to have some traction (at least as far as DEG's concerned, anyway)...

...Dave

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Report--New Baltimore Brass tuba rest

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