Name That Tuba!

[imperialbari]

Has TN’s quote function been corrupted?

What do you mean?

My point!

[imperialbari]

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/oct1999 ... 16645.html

[bigtubby]

image.jpg

Not a beautifully exposed section of the OP’s photo. But it very much hints this is a tuba with 4 rotors sitting right after the leadpipe. The valve caps look like turned towards the front side of the tuba. That position relative to the paddles makes it very likely that this tuba has string action rotors with a set-up similar to the one seen on the Conn 8D horn.

This transmission in rare cases is seen on European tubas, whereas it was more common on older American tubas.

Klaus

Was trying to not put too fine a point on it earlier but:

...

But the overall layout is more like the big J. Low (left):


Would it be safe to say "German"?

The Munster built J. Löw tuba pictured above is decidedly German but doesn't follow the Cerveny designs that pretty much dominated German manufacturing in the 19th and 20th Centuries. The valve block is on the bell side of the bugle, "upside down" and with string linkage. Very direct and tight.

The tuba that Red is holding in OP's photo has that same general layout.

[Donn]

But the first valve tubing - the Löw's first valve is right where everyone else puts it, and the leadpipe is not as weird as Callender's. I'm willing to suppose that Callender's first valve is under his left hand, you can see a little of it in there. Not next to the bell like most rotaries.

This Alexander 173 is more like what I see, in terms of leadpipe and that stuff. Also with valves inverted as Klaus describes -


Also ... is that thing by Callender's bottom bow a 3rd valve with no tuning slide?

[imperialbari]

It has a tuning slide, only the inner leg is very short. Like more of a draining slide.

Klaus

[Donn]

Well, I retract my speculation that this part might have been done later. No one would replace a normal third valve with that.

Wonder if he actually played that tuba, or someone just had it handy when they needed it for a prop?

[imperialbari]

I have looked through the Cazzani and the Kalison rotor tubas in my galleries. None of them have the inverted string action rotors of Mr. Callender’s tuba.

Most have the ‘concentric’ 3rd loop tubing, but they all run from the left side towards the right side with the end slide opposite the bell side.

I also have looked through some of the old American rotor tubas mostly made on the east coast. I found nothing of the exactly same configuration, yet my gut feeling tells this tuba American made and more than 95 years old.

Klaus

[jeopardymaster]

Randy may be onto something - wrap looks somewhat like a Sander I almost bought. Problem (in my experience) about Sander - no 2 I've ever gotten my hands on were anything close to identical. I think there must have been a lot more personal touch by the individual craftsmen in their production - some of you guys undoubtedly know way more about that than I do.

The bell reminds me of a Kruspe F I used to own, but that seems less likely based on the leadpipe and wrap.

[iiipopes]

Problem (in my experience) about Sander - no 2 I've ever gotten my hands on were anything close to identical.

That would explain a lot about the wrap of the valve circuits that we now consider "unconventional." I think we're getting closer.

The pictures are flipped, but check out the valves, the paddles and the loops here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37625" target="_blank

I still think it is older than 1890-1900, because of the bell configuration essentially tapering instead of flaring.

[bigtubby]

But the first valve tubing - the Löw's first valve is right where everyone else puts it, and the leadpipe is not as weird as Callender's. I'm willing to suppose that Callender's first valve is under his left hand, you can see a little of it in there. Not next to the bell like most rotaries.

What I meant was that the Callender horn and the Löw share a fairly unusual overall layout with the (inverted) valve block on the bell sode of the main bugle loop. While the first valve circuit is "where everyone else puts it" it exits the valve block on the other side of the horn. The difference in leadpipe is related to this: it enters the first valve on the bottom of the valve. The leadpipe on the Callender horn (and the Alex below) enters from the top where the first valve circuit exits on the Löw (well, the Alex's enters the fifth valve from that position).

This Alexander 173 is more like what I see, in terms of leadpipe and that stuff. Also with valves inverted as Klaus describes -


Also ... is that thing by Callender's bottom bow a 3rd valve with no tuning slide?

I LOVE those Alex 173's.

Yes that is the 3rd valve circuit with a very small tuning slide. That is the part that put me in mind of the Fischer EEb which also has inverted valve block/string action but in the "normal" position.

The concensus on the Fischer EEb seems to be 1930's B&F but if the Callender horn does turn out to be American it might make us wonder about the Fischer?

[bigtubby]

Problem (in my experience) about Sander - no 2 I've ever gotten my hands on were anything close to identical.

That would explain a lot about the wrap of the valve circuits that we now consider "unconventional." I think we're getting closer.

The pictures are flipped, but check out the valves, the paddles and the loops here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37625" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I still think it is older than 1890-1900, because of the bell configuration essentially tapering instead of flaring.

Again the valve block on that Sander are located on the "normal" side of the main bugle wrap. Other than the string linkage (and necessary "flipped" rotors) that horn's general layout is quite similar to the standard Czech/German designs that are still being built and copied. The 3rd and 4th circuits are in a nice position for pulling but are the slides long enough?