Alternate Fingering vs. Slide Pulling

[Mark]

I've found that I would rather use alternate fingerings instead of slide pulls when everyting else is equal. How do you feel?

[ThomasP]

I did not vote because I use alternate fingerings and I pull slides. It all depends on the alternate fingering. For instance I won't hesitate using 3rd valve in place of 12, but I would rather pull my fourth valve slide for 24 than play 235. It all depends on what is the easiest way to accomplish what I need to accomplish. Here's one more thing, just because I use 3rd for E below the staff to play it in tune doesn't mean I always use that. Sometimes its easier to play 12 and no one will notice a difference. The same thing with other alternate fingerings. I see a lot of people sometimes trying to learn technical passages with alternate fingerings and it simply doesn't lie well, and the pitches would respond much better and it would be easier to learn played without alternate fingerings. Basically I do some of both, but my first option is to see if there is an alternate fingering, then if I like that fingering I play it, if not then I pull slides of lip the note.

[Mark]

Basically I do some of both, but my first option is to see if there is an alternate fingering, then if I like that fingering I play it, if not then I pull slides of lip the note.

Okay, that is actually what I do. That's why I said everything else being equal. Some of the alternate fingerings may feel clumsy or the tone may not be as nice; so I may pull a slide. But I always try the alternate fingering first.

[Charlie Goodman]

When I switched to CC, my teacher and I figured out the best fingering for tuning for every note on the horn, and I just used those fingerings as part of the conversion. For instance, I just learned 3rd valve to be THE fingering for e in the staff, so it doesn't even feel like I'm using an alternate. For further tuning problems, though, I pull.

[Ryan_Beucke]

I am a euph player, so I don't really have the option of pulling slides, but if I could, I would probably do that first. The reason is that when you start putting more and more valves down, the note usually gets a stuffier tone, and might be harder to hit/easier to frack.

[Joe Baker]

I'm a trombone player anyway, so I'm used to adjusting pitch with a slide -- but durn it, it's gotta be with the MAIN slide. I don't want to have to move a bunch of different slides depending on the fingering.

Besides, I have a dickens of a time remembering to use the right alternate fingering with the right instrument.
_________________________________
Joe Baker, whose current three-valved tuba doesn't offer enough alternate fingerings anyway!

[TexTuba]

I voted alternate fingering but that's not entirely true. I only adjust my first valve slide on my CC when playing. Everything else I tune up before band as best as I can. If something doesn't work with the ensemble while playing then I'll use alternate fingerings.






Ralph"who wishes his ensemble would be as religious with tuning as he is"

[tubeast]

I prefer alternate fingerings and a little lipping to pulling slides. Right now I´m in the process of raising my embouchure by about 15 cents to meet the tuning habits of a new ensemble, anyways. So my problem tends to be PUSHING a slide that already is all the way in rather than pulling. Plus, when you have the time to pull a sluggish valve slide you might as well concentrate on an alternate fingering, so you won´t have to undo that tuning after the note. (Yes, I do OIL my slides to the point that they´ll be sucked back in if I don´t use the valve in the process. It´s still too slow if there are no rests).
On the occasions when alternate fingerings would slow me down I even skip those and try to get away with lipping. It will be hard for most to notice the difference during speedy lines.

Hans

[KarlMarx]

Depends on the situation, so the poll isn't set up in a relevant way.

Especially as the true answer is compensating instruments with main tuning slide triggers.

Just ask Steven Meat!

Carolus Trombonificandus et Redigitirarius

[Wilco]

I'm a trombone player anyway, so I'm used to adjusting pitch with a slide -- but durn it, it's gotta be with the MAIN slide. I don't want to have to move a bunch of different slides depending on the fingering.

I'm a trombonist to. A trigger on the main slide would be great! My mira is mostly in tune, when not I use alternates. I hate pulling, it disturbs posture.

[MartyNeilan]

I voted for alternate fingering, all things being equal.
But there are times when I would choose to pull (or push) a slide. On many CC's, the D in the staff is noticeably flat with first valve. Particulary when starting a soft passage, there are times when I would push the 1st slide in all the way instead of using the 4th valve, which also slots the D right in tune.
Of course on my current CC the 5th partial is great! (Too bad the 3rd partial G is 40 cents flat, but 1-3 gets the job done)
On my 6 valve F, I can use the flat half-step left hand valve for bringing down some otherwise sharp 2-3 combinations: using L-1-2 inslead of pulling a slide on 2-3 (L-3 is too flat for any note).

[MikeMason]

my take on this. i am a slide puller. i just think of the slide pull as part of the fingering. ie(BBb tuba) 1st space c-1+slide (1st valve slide)all the way in.adjacent b-12+slide out about3/4 inch. c below staff-4+slide(4th valve slide) out 3.5 inches.adjacet b-24+slide out 4.5 inches. another interesting note on my particular horn, my valve set is a 4 valve MW Big valve set(on a holton BBb) there is a notch where each slide is to be set for "default BBb"setting.I assume these valvesets may be used for BBbs and CCs. therefore i can push my slides in past the "0" setting on other tubas. great for c and b in the staff. on fast runs i split the difference and just leave 'em. i would still rather have the Marzan top pull main slide and will never understand why all tubas don't have this feature...

[Rick Denney]

What about playing a compensating tuba. You do not need to slide pull, or use alternative fingering

Well, my compensated Besson euphonium has its share of intonation quirks despite the compensating valves.

One of the things I discovered when reading up on the science of tuba acoustics is that the taper of the bugle has as much, and perhaps more influence on the partials and how they are tuned than just the length. And I'm also to the conclusion that the taper design that produces the sound most people really want isn't the same as the taper design that produces the best intonation.

But even if length was the only issue, a four-valve compensator only improves the bugle length for notes in the fourth-valve register. Thus, for your EEb, the E below the staff is improved, as well as the low A and notes below it down to the pedal. No other notes on the instrument are affected by the compensation, including most of the notes for which players routinely pull or push slides (e.g., the notes of the fifth partial).

A three-valve compensator actually works better, except that it doesn't provide the low register.

But all compensation systems work on the assumption that the partials are perfectly in tuned throughout the basic valve combinations, and I've never met the tuba for which that is true.

Rick "thinking you trade some issues for other issues" Denney

[rodmathews]

I have a four-step approach:

1) I find the fingering that best resonates when I'm playing in the center of the note.

2) If it isn't in tune and it's possible to correct the intonation easily by moving a slide, I move a slide.

3) If it's not possible to move a slide, I will reluctantly use an alternate if one is available.

4) If an alternate isn't available, I get a different tuba!

I never, ever "lip" anything into tune. For me, that's a recipe for chipped notes or inconsistencies in sound. I try to buzz the mouthpiece to produce the best sound, and then adjust the horn if required.

I used to have a Yamaha F tuba with a tuning mechanism for the main tuning slide. I could pull it out or push it in and a set of springs would move the slide back to a preselected location when I was done. I found this to be the most efficient way to work around any tuning issues, since it gave me a single way to adjust ANY note. Unfortunately, many horns aren't able to be modified in this way.

The good news about such a mechanism is you can adjust anything, the bad news is if you are ever out of tune you can't blame it on the horn!

Rod

[harrell]

I spent five years on a CC that I had to pull slides often. Then I got an old 6 valve German F, where practically every note was an alt. fing. but it sounded great. I finally wised up and started using alternate fingerings everywhere I could on both horns. Much better. Unless the alt. fing. makes the tone change, go for the alt. fing.

[vmi5198]

I guess the best answer I can give is that I do both. Do whatever you need to do to sound in tune - whether it is pulling slides or alternate fingerings, or standing on your head - play in tune.

[MaryAnn]

As one has no spare hands playing a 3+1 tuba

Ok, you guys who always put up pictures....how about a picture for this one?

MA

[Mark]

As one has no spare hands playing a 3+1 tuba

Ok, you guys who always put up pictures....how about a picture for this one?

I don't have a picture; but I can describe it. Valves 1,2 and 3 are upright and operated by the right hand. Valve 4 is on the left side of the tuba and operated by the left hand.

Found a picture: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 48164&rd=1

[ThomasDodd]

[quote="Jonathantuba"
However, it shows how a 3+1 tuba is held. The left hand operates the fourth valve.
[/quote]

Cannot see the valve in the picture, it it thumb or index finger operating the 4th valve?

I'm guessing index finger, like a 3+1 euphonium, but ...

[Rick Denney]

I'm guessing index finger, like a 3+1 euphonium, but ...

Yup. It's the same plan as a compensating euphonium.

Rick "who can't seem to get his left forefinger connected to his brain" Denney