Eb tuba. What happened?

[imperialbari]

The original Saxhorn family had the Eb as its contrabass. Civil War era bands like Sousa’s early scores had Eb tubas as their bottom bass and a euphonium sized Bb bass as their high bass. The larger BBb basses were developed later.

And then the Eb bass for a long time profited from the fact that it can be played from bass clef music with trumpet fingerings, especially in flat keys.

My take is that the BBb penetrated the market, when band leaders realized how much fuller sound it could add to their contrabass line.

Klaus

[Donn]

If that time frame is accurate, and the Eb tuba declined after 1920, John Philip Sousa probably had something to do with it. His band started touring in 1892, and in the early 20th century it was extremely popular - by far the most popular concert band ever. If you search for his name vs. tuba, of course it's all about the Sousa-phone, but he was very influential in brass band music in every respect. If he went with BBb basses instead of Eb, I don't think that was a particularly pioneering move - other bands were doing the same, and of course it's natural that the contrabass tuba would eventually take a seat in the band. But as far as I know the bass+contrabass instrumentation that you see in other parts of the world was not so much Sousa's thing, which was bad news for the Eb tuba.

[Wyvern]

What I do not understand is why Eb tuba disappeared from schools in the states? From this side of the pond, it seems a far more sensible pitch tuba to start new players - easier to handle and with more straightforward transpositions if moving across from trumpet, etc. Also it is a better tuba to use for learning solos to advance the player.

Of course in UK it is very rare for anyone to start playing tuba/bass on a BBb - 95% must begin on Eb and many stay with that pitch tuba throughout their lives, never learning to play in another key. I think the majority of BBb in the UK are owned by brass bands.

[Wyvern]

I'd guess that more have been manufactured recently than ever before...

...Do you mean as a "percentage" ?

I mean 19 out of 20 tuba players must start out on Eb in UK. I only know of one school that teaches BBb.

[Donn]

What I do not understand is why Eb tuba disappeared from schools in the states?

I guess band programs may not have been interested in teaching an instrument that isn't used in band.

[imperialbari]

Sousa’s contrabass line went from the Eb to the BBb around 1890. The high bass line went to the bass trombone possibly a little later, like his two valved tenors became tenor trombones. That explains the US loss of the two or three Bb Tenorhorns and of the high tuba that are still found in continental European scores for Harmonieorchester/harmoniorkester or whatever the local equivalent of the concert band is called.

Klaus

[Paul Scott]

It is interesting to note how the Eb tuba has vanished from the schools in the USA. I started on Eb tuba in the sixth grade in the mid '70s and I think that was a good thing for me. My teacher, Mr. Paul Hagar, was an older man who told me that the school had purchased one of the last Eb tubas that Conn made (in the mid 60s, I believe).

One reason that the Ebs may have vanished might have to do with a big part of their original attraction to schools. It was standard practice to convert trumpet/cornet players, (usually the less successful ones) over to Eb tuba. The idea was the teacher could take the trumpet book, change the clef and key signature and voila (or viola?): a tuba player. In other words, if the music showed an "Eb" in the bass clef the trumpet student would know it as "C" with the same open fingering on Eb tuba. Same as the Salvation Army Band system using G clef for everything but bass trombone. Since our school supplied instruments free of charge there wasn't much of a problem with this. But as more districts went to rental programs there would have been more resistance to changing the instrument, ("What, after renting a trumpet for all of this money we're going to change instruments!!??"). I've encountered this attitude myself as a teacher in the public schools.

A more simple explanation might be that the schools are always at least 50-75 years behind the times, (regrettably, not in the good sense!). In my grandmother's day fountain pens were not allowed in the schools, only straight pens. Then when my mother went to school in the 1930's/40's, ball points weren't allowed, only fountain pens. As Eb tubas were used less in the 1920s/30s it could have taken until the 70s for the same to happen in public schools. Incidentally, Jack Richardson (first tubist of the Sousa Band) wrote an article decrying the Eb tuba in favor of the BBb back in 1917. It was reprinted in one of the TUBA Journals back in the 80s.

[Donn]

I'm not convinced that accounts for much. I mean, sure, reading music on two different keys of tuba is a drawback - as is the cost of two different tubas, and the physical logistics. But that wouldn't keep everyone from doing it if there were some need for it. There wasn't, in the US bands.

[Art Hovey]

Two other reasons have not yet been mentioned:

Yes, Eb tubas make the transition from trumpet easier, but the transition from baritone horn or euphonium to BBb tuba is much easier on the chops. A kid who starts out reading bass clef on a baritone horn can make the switch in a day or two.

Also small "3/4-size" BBb tubas have become plentiful in recent years, and some of them are pretty good. They did not exist here in the US when I was starting out.

Re-learning my fingerings after starting out on Eb tuba and then switching to BBb was not easy for me at the age of 12, but finally being able to get a mellow tone in the "cash" register below the staff made it all worthwhile.

[Dan Schultz]

I forgot to mention my best Eb experience. When I enlisted in the Navy in 1964... at the recruiters office after taking the 'tests'... I was selected to go to school as a Communications Technician (Navy 'spook'). When I arrived at boot camp I was placed in a company of guys who were off to music school. Company 5903 I think. I told them I played Eb tuba and they did not have any. Soooo.... my duty was to carry the music in for the dance band music that played for the 'color company' dances on Friday evenings for the outstanding graduating companies.

[imperialbari]

During my college years I played baritone and bass trombone. I don’t remember the context, but I remember standing in the room with my preferred Petrof grand piano when reading the foreword (or the end text) of an American tutoring book for the beginning tubist. It explained why this edition no longer was dual purpose for BBb and Eb tubas: the baritone had by then become the starter instrument for young tubists. The octave switch between reading modes was considered a lesser obstacle than shifting between Eb and BBb fingerings.

On a side note the tutor issued by the Christian youth organisation, where I started on valved alto trombone in 1960 had its first two thirds as a tutor for valved brass reading treble clef (Eb soprano flugelhorn called pikkolo through baritone). There were fingering tables for normal three valves, for three valves with two whole steps in the 3rd loop, and for four valves.

The last third was a tutor for tuba with fingering tables for varying number of valves and for the pitches of F, Eb, Db, and BBb (maybe also for CC, but my memory is not positive on that matter). I had piano lesson through some months of 1958. Not enough for any proficiency, but enough to teach me the idea of different clefs, so I read all of the text and eyed the music right after getting that book.

When I started the most common tubas were in F and in BBb. The upcoming fad of brass band made the Eb more common. I never saw a tuba in Db, as they had been worn out since they were in fashion many years back. The first time I played in a band that had a CC tuba was in 1993, bu they had been in use for some years by then.

The latest reports I had from the youth band environment was that F tubas and small Eb tubas were used for the bass line and large Eb tubas were used for the contrabass line.

Klaus

[Peach]

I think the main reason for the Eb decline in US schools has been hinted on in that bands got bigger therefore a greater amount of usable BASS was required.

A modest sized Bb with 3 valves can lay down plenty more solid bass in a useful register than most 3v Eb's.
Cost-wise, a 3 valve Bb probably costs less than a 4 valve Eb (might it also weigh less in some cases?)...