Tchaikovsky #4....Bass or Contrabass?

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Sitting here waiting for a dress rehearsal of Tchaik #4, and I'm seeing bass-tuba written on the part. I had always ASSumed it to be a contra part.

Am I goofy about that assumption?

[Ace]

Contrabass.

Ace

[jeopardymaster]

Contrabass, agreed. I hope you got a version of the part where the typo has been corrected (missing bars in a critical passage).

[Mark]

Big contrabass!

[UDELBR]

I've played it quite a few times on a big Eb. Works fine.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I just wonder if "bass-tuba" means something different to the folks in Russia?

[tbn.al]

It might have a hundred and fifty years ago.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Contrabass, agreed. I hope you got a version of the part where the typo has been corrected (missing bars in a critical passage).

Are you talking about the 1st movement around measures 177-180 (the first extended dotted rhythm passage)?

[finnbogi]

I've played it quite a few times on a big Eb. Works fine.

+1

[Toobist]

I just wonder if "bass-tuba" means something different to the folks in Russia?

The question is: Does it mean something or anything to the editor.

Play the part and don't give too much credence to what some editor (who had to stamp that part in a few different languages as well as stamp the rest of the parts in those languages) stamped on your part. Traditionalists will disagree with me (and each other half the time).

[Donn]

Traditionalists will disagree with me (and each other half the time).

That's the nice thing about traditionalists - there are so many to choose from!

[hbcrandy]

CC or BBb. It needs the weight of the sound of the larger tuba.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

CC or BBb. It needs the weight of the sound of the larger tuba.

Yes. It should be bombastic in a way that one would not usually hear from a bass tuba.

[Bill Troiano]

I always wondered whether composers actually knew what they were writing when indicating the tuba part. Did they know the difference between bass tuba, contrabass tuba and tuba? Most musicians wouldn't know the difference in hearing the various tubas. Why didn't the composers write tuba in CC, or tuba in F, like trumpet parts?

I don't remember there ever being a distinction between bass and contrabass tubas back in the early 70's when I was in college. I don't remember any of my teachers ever referring to bass or contrabass tubas. This designation seems to be fairly recent. I might be totally off here. Wuddaya think?

[UDELBR]

I always wondered whether composers actually knew what they were writing when indicating the tuba part. Did they know the difference between bass tuba, contrabass tuba and tuba? ?

This has been covered before here at Tubenet. Look at the parts that Wagner, Bruckner & Strauss designated as ContraBassTuba: they're generally written in a range about a 5th below their parts designated for BassTuba. What more proof could you want?

[ppalan]

Why didn't the composers write tuba in CC, or tuba in F, like trumpet parts?

I also may be off on this point but I'm pretty sure the reason for designating trumpets (and horns) as Trumpet in C or Bb or D or whatever goes back to the time before trumpets and horns had valves and used crooks to change keys. Tubas were invented after the invention of valves. I also think that tuba players many years ago tended to do most everything on one horn. In this country it became the CC in many places in Europe it was (and still is) primarily BBb or F. Now it seems everyone who is "serious" needs to have multiple tubas.
Pete

[Untersatz]

"It's Russian" = BAT (preferably BBb)

[Bill Troiano]

Unclebeer,
Well, at least 3 composers out dozens knew the difference. I'm sure there are many other examples of what you say, but I still maintain, most composers didn't know the difference between bass tubas, contrabass tubas, and tubas. Certainly in a blind test hearing these instruments, most wouldn't know the difference.

I think the bottom line in today's orchestral music world, or in any music idiom, would be to play what you feel most comfortable playing a particular piece on and make it blend with who you are playing with. I own an F, but I feel more comfortable on CC. There have been times, for me, where an F would've been the ideal choice for a piece of music, but I felt more comfortable and my confidence level was higher on my CC and I thought I would do a better job on a CC. Sound good and nobody will care what kind of tuba you play on .

pplan,
You're right about the valve issue regarding keys of various trumpets. I just think of that when I typed the post.