Owning only a BAT

[tofu]

Went to hear the CSO Brass ensemble concert Thurs. and from my vantage point it looked like the guy pictured above was using a 4/4 Hirsbrunner for most of the numbers. But for a couple pieces including Finlandia I'm pretty sure he was using one of the items below from those friendly Bavarians:



If you wanna go big and you can play like Gene P. then get a Siegfried and be done with it.

It sounded AWESOME.

The whole group sounded wonderful - a great concert.

[bort]

Well, besides the Siegfried, if I were shopping for a brand new 6/4, this would all be a quite different story! BTW, what an awesome looking instrument that is! And no, I cannot play like Gene, not even close.

[taylorbeaty]

Arnold Jacobs used the York CC for almost everyone (but then again, the York is amazing) and I heard that Abe Torchinksy used his CC for pretty much everything except for Bydlo. Times have changed but I'm still a contrabass fan!

[Greenbenches]

I only became a 2 tuba owner 3 months ago. I've been playing a nice Conn 20J in my concert band for a number of years and am normally the only tuba player. It's hard to get it in and out of the car. It qualifies as a good exercise workout to carry around and takes up a bunch of room to set down. That said it lays a solid bass foundation for the band without working that hard. It sits on the front of my chair and I can lean on it while I play.
My "new" tuba is a sweet old Martin Medium Bb. Both upright and recording bells. It's easy to move around though not as light as newer tubas of that size. I can sling it and stand/ stroll while playing, and I find that it has become the one that I practice with more than the other.
All of that said, when my band has a concert I use the big Conn. If I had to keep just one, it would be the Conn 20J.
The 20K that I found on Craigslist last month doesn't count because it needs a lower mouth pipe. My wife don't know about it yet but that's another story.

[edsel585960]

I agree with Greenbenches. If I had to keep one horn, it would be my trusty old 20J.

[Alex C]

I've learned to rely on Mrs. bloke's ears, rather than how a tuba "feels" or how it sounds "from under the bell"...and this (of course) includes mouthpieces.
Sometimes, I hold on to tubas *in spite of* her comments, but (eventually) those tubas tend to eventually find other owners.

You are a wise man.

[Pneumatic Subwoofer]

I have a Martin Mammoth (only). I thought the little ones were euphoniums.

But seriously, folks.... Yes, only one tuba here. A pretty good sized one. But do not under any circumstances rely on my input for advice on such matters. Good day to all.

[jeopardymaster]

It's awfully hard (though not impossible) to avoid overwhelming a quintet with a big horn. Right after I got it, I took my Neptune to 1 BQ rehearsal, just to see how it behaved in an ensemble setting. And never brought it back - too much like work to do that again.

[bort]

Well, lucky(?) for me, I just about never play in a quintet. I think I've done it 2 or 3 times in my life.

I've heard a lot of opinions here (and privately) about BATs and specifically Neptunes being good tools for the intended job, and I think that's probably a good summary of the situation. Or another way, should I use something smaller and constantly push it, or something larger and have to to ease up when/if I need to? I think I would take the latter. Maybe I'm unreasonably hard to please, but I think most mid-size things are usually okay, but are never really as large or as small as you would like them to be.

Again, thanks for all the thoughts and opinions on this!

[MartyNeilan]

Whenever I have brought a small horn to anything bigger than a quintet, people have asked for the big'un. There is just something about the depth of sound.
I rehearsed with a brass ensemble this weekend for a Christmas Eve performance, and in a 9 piece group the BART - played modestly and with a tight mouthpiece - worked fine.
If you can find a big horn that has a good ppp, can be played delicately, and has a lot of resonance, you should be able to cover most situations outside of some quintets and very high, light parts. (Years ago Don Harry suggested I use the Mirafone 190 BBb for Hungarian March, and it did work.)

The Neptune has a reputation for being a versatile big horn that can play smaller when need be. If you can, try to get the two leadpipes so you have an option to "tighten it up" from a playing perspective.

Marty "wondering what kind of ad the word "big'un" will bring.

[bort]

I think most mid-size things are usually okay, but are never really as large or as small as you would like them to be.

That's why those who can afford more than one tuba actually own more than one tuba. The mid-size tuba is a compromise for many. I would love to have the setup I did 20 years ago - F tuba, 4/4CC, and BATCC. I currently have a 4/4 CC, and it is a very fine tuba, but I often wish I had a bigger tuba and a smaller tuba depending on the situation. One day, I'll have what I want. It only takes money...

Absolutely. So I think at this point I just look at "what do I do the most?" and use that as my direction. For me, I do very little (if any) small group stuff.

Thanks again, everyone!

[TubaSteve]

Well, I would like to challenge the one theme that I see often in posts here....that it is difficult to afford more than one tuba. I understand that if you want several new top tier horns, then you will have to go visit your bank account, but that does not always have to be the case. My only true BAT, my 6/4 Holton is still at Lee Stofers shop, so I really have not had a chance to play it, but when he is done with it, I will have another very nice horn to have to decide which one to play. I currently have 9 horns, (I recently did sell one 3/4 BBb that I just didn't play anymore.) but I don't have a fortune invested in them. My Meinl Weston 25 was a new horn when I purchased it, and yes it was a significant investment, but most of the other horns I have, were well used horns that needed significant work to bring them back. That is no reason to turn down one of them, as you can find real gems in this process. In the last four days, I have used three different horns for different performances. Each one was the best choice for that event. My most recent 1964 Reynolds 170 is one that I rescued literally from a scrap pile. It was going to be scrapped the next day when I found it. It needed lots of work, but it was so worth it. It is a large tuba, but it is not a true BAT, but it doesn't know that, and has the sound of one. Fantastic presence, can play in tune at PPP to FFF and not have to overblow. Clean attacks and very efficient use of air so you don't have to work so hard at times. I play it every chance I get. However, with a recording bell,(as much as I really like my recording bell horns), there are times that I want the upright. I have used the MW-25 at two performances in the last five days that were in settings where we were in the center of the venue. It makes sense to use the upright horn there. I used my oldest (1952), Reynolds 140 Sousaphone when I went to work, and played Christmas tunes for a combined 5 hours on all three shifts through the factory Thursday night and Friday during the morning and afternoon. (It is a lot of fun, and people love it. ) With my Holton, I will be getting both bells, so I will have some fun learning how it plays. Back to the topic, is that all of these horns have been very reasonable or even free. I will have some money invested in the Holton when Lee is done with it, but he assures me that it will be a very nice tuba. It doesn't have to break the bank to get more horns. I recently turned down a 4/4 string rotor Marzan for $400 as I just don't need any more horns. It was a very nice player, and pretty good quality horn. A little work and it would be a fantastic horn.

Steve

[bort]

I'm sure more than a few people would like to know where that $400 Marzan is.

All good points, but I think *space* is a big limitation for a lot of people (well, for me at least). I also think there's such a thing as too many tubas. But if you have room, money, and the ability to stay "up" on that many instruments at a time, then go for it!

[boobentuben]

For me, I do very little (if any) small group stuff.

Dude!

U play in tuba sections

Don't need dat bat 4 dat

everbod else goin hafta play ppp so U can blow dat BAT out

if yo not only 1 supportin big band Y U need dat BAT for DAT

R U narcissistic

DUDE! not cool

[bort]

What about only owning a

Big
Ol'
Rotten
Tuba

?

^Ding ding! I think we have a winner!

[bort]

Dude!

U play in tuba sections

Don't need dat bat 4 dat

everbod else goin hafta play ppp so U can blow dat BAT out

if yo not only 1 supportin big band Y U need dat BAT for DAT

R U narcissistic

DUDE! not cool

Wow.

[Mark Horne]

Whether or not a BAT as your only horn would work depends a lot on the horn in question - knowing that the OP is looking at a rotary Neptune I would say the answer is yes. I also play mostly in larger ensemble situations, and if forced to have only one horn I would probably choose my Alexander 163. I spent a couple of hours with a Gronitz PCK earlier this week and felt that it would be more difficult to pull off as your only horn, but it was wonderful in its own right.

For me, the Neptune aligns more closely with the alex in overall character but is more accessible in very high and very low range. Intonation is well behaved and the sound is a little larger but more "spread" than the alex (I think of the alexander 163 sound as being "direct" and having "impact"). The PCK on the other hand has some notes that shake the floor, and others that require some work on the players part to find the proper resonance (which is to be expected, but there are more and more examples these days of instruments that offer "easy" resonance throughout the low range). I also found it more ergonomically challenging to manipulate the heavy pistons of the PCK especially with their relatively low positioning on the horn. The Neptune is wrapped like a bigger and heavier alex, so the ergonomics are familiar to rotary tuba players.

I would say the most negative tradeoff with the Neptune is its size and weight, which is considerable; however Glenn Cronkhite makes a gig bag specifically for this horn that makes transportation very manageable. I figure that I'm about 20 years older than Bort and can still manage to schlep the Neptune where it's needed, but I do consider the logistics of the venue when deciding what horn goes to the gig. Perhaps the biggest endorsement I can make for the Neptune is that my wife won't let me sell it.

With respect to buying and selling multiple horns to find the right one, I think Bort is going about it the right way. I understand how important a play test is, but in my experience you actually need to own an instrument for a period of time to see if it will really work for you in the long term.

[Peach]

Bort, if you only play in big groups I don't really get why you're asking the question?
As a former Neptune owner, I'll confirm: great in big ensembles but wasn't to my taste in quintet. I've played other BATs in quintet that worked much better - vintage Rusk/Holton C, and a Holton 345 Bb.

Go for it

[Tubajug]

As someone with absolutely no experience owning or playing a BAT, I say go for it!

[PMeuph]

As someone with absolutely no experience owning or playing a BAT, I say go for it!

+1