COLLEGE

[Mudman]

A music education degree often but not always means you only get lessons with the TA, have second choice in ensembles, and have less opportunities or have to work harder for opportunities than the performance majors. This is especially true in large studios.

Good point. Luckily, if you are one of the best and most reliable players, it is likely that none of the above will apply.

Most of the college teachers I know will work with the best players, letting TA's teach the weaker players. In the big-school settings that I'm familiar with, it doesn't matter if you are in education or not. There could be exceptions where the main teacher is not allowed to take on education majors, but I'm not familiar with such programs. (Anybody know for sure?)

Some people would even suggest that many colleges should not offer music degrees (the standards are too low at most schools). I feel strongly that music should be taught everywhere as part of a balanced liberal-arts education.

[MaryAnn]

Most of the college teachers I know will work with the best players, letting TA's teach the weaker players

That's a real shame too....someone who had a bum teacher in high school gets shafted again in college, instead of getting the level of teaching he's paying the same for as the guys who do get it. It's the attitude of "if you aren't good already you're not worth wasting my time on to help you get better." Otherwise known as "I don't know how to teach so I'll only keep the people who don't need teaching in the first place."

MA, who has a sore spot on that topic

[Matt G]

The advice to figure out what you love and do it is good advice. Sometimes we still crash and burn when we find out we don't love it like we thought we did, and have to go do something else anyway.

Yeah, Mary Ann--if the music thing doesn't work out, you can always take a day job that pays the bills:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4970633/

Yeah, well he went to Julliard...


I agree with other posters that a double major in performance and engineering will take 6 years minimum. In college I knew a fella who devoted as much as he could afford to music (very little) while getting a aerospace engineering degree. Took him 5 years of study including summers. The two share so little in terms of coursework that you nearly have to add them together to figure out how long you will be in school.

Now if you do something like Applied Mathematics and Engineering together, that is a 4-5 year commitment.

Oh, and those "planned course of study" handouts that the school gives you aren't even worth the paper they're printed on most of the time.

[Mudman]

(and by the way NO degree is worthless if you have spent your time and efforts in getting it).

It is my opinion that most of the people that post on this forum site are elitists and speak thier minds accordingly. (there is nothing wrong with that, it just gets old to us common folk)

Yep, I agree that no degree is worthless. While some degrees may have no practical value, the process of education is what holds value to me. Had I wanted to earn $80,000 a year, I would not have gone into teaching. Lucky for me, money doesn't really matter.

Elitist you say? When you get operated on, you want the best surgeon possible. If you break your teeth, you don't want a hack dentist. Yes, you too are an elitist (tm).

If you mean to say that some of us come across as blowhards with strong opinions, you could be right. As always a small fragment of what you read might have merit. Only time and experience will tell . . .

[Joe Baker]

RE: Elitists and blowhards
___________________________

One of the reasons we all come to this list is because there are some pretty extraordinary people here -- extraordinary in various fields. You have professional tubists, engineers, instrument craftsmen, doctors, lawyers, farmers, soldiers, machinists -- lots of people with lots of knowledge in lots of fields. So when one of those fields is the topic of conversation, you are getting the benefit of an expert opinion at no cost. I've occasionally seen various of these experts referred to as a "blowhard", usually by a high school or college student who wishes the answer given were different.

Now, the subject is college; more specifically, combining an engineering degree and a music degree. There are quite a few folks on here who have expertise in the matter at hand, having, at various times, been majors in music and also engineering. I got my degree in computer science after starting as a music major. I can tell you that I had NO idea just how much would be demanded of me for either of these degrees before I started. In order to finish the music degree in four years, you have to complete about 10 courses per semester. There are many required classes that require ten or more hours per week of outside prep, but award the student only one or two credit hours. Private lessons, for example, require at least 20 hours of practice per week plus attendance at recitals -- altogether, figure around 22 hours per week -- for ONE credit hour. Engineering and computer science classes don't require so very many classes, but a lot of them require a lot of time. My assembly language class, for example, took a good 50 hours per week for just that one class.

Does telling you these things make me an elitist blowhard? I don't think so. I, and I'd bet the others who have talked about the extreme difficulty of what you are about to undertake, are just watching someone heading for a patch of road we're familiar with, and warning of the perils that lie within it. "Watch out for dead-man's curve; you have to go slower than you'd think!"

You may well be that one student in a thousand that can pull this off. If so, I'll have nothing but admiration for your accomplishment. But IF YOU CAN'T, I'd hope you would understand that there's no disgrace in that.
____________________________________
Joe Baker, who admires lofty goals, but cautions being prepared to sometimes fall short.

[Joe Baker]

I couldn't decide whether to include this picture in my earlier post. I decided against it, since I felt it might be considered insulting to tie it to the whole double-major issue; but the more I thought about it the more I thought it's just too funny not to include it.

__________________________________
Joe Baker, who knows we've ALL been here at one time or another, in one way or another....