I've been wrestling with myself, trying to figure out if teaching is for me, and in my second year of study for music education, I'm miserable. I definitely don't want to teach in a public school setting, which is what my degree designates me to do. So that got me thinking about what else I can do and if I can actually make it music related. So I came up with instrument repair.
I've always been very thorough with everything I do, and always took things apart and tried to put them back together, see how they work, how they fit together. I really enjoy doing that sort of work. I got all 8 sousaphones, and all 5 concert tubas in my high school in working order (no repair here, just cleaning and lubing, and realizing that valves got mixed up in the sousaphones). Some of those skills needed might even be hereditary: my grandfather could fix almost anything anywhere it seems, mechanical or electrical; two of his sons do this type of work, an auto mechanic(uncle) and a carpenter/contractor(my dad).
So my real question(finally) is what do I do now? I talked briefly to Matt Walters about this and shot him an e-mail more recently. I was wondering if should I go ahead and finish my music ed degree(if it would help at all with the repair school but the program is 5 years, and i'm already a little bit behind) then attend the repair school,
OR
should I switch to performance(to get out on time-4 years) and then attend the repair/tech school? And where is a good place to go to school for repair in my area(northern Jersey, 20 minutes west of NYC)?
Thanks in advance to all who respond. I hate sounding so inexperienced and needy, but what else is a 20 year old to do than to learn from those more experienced than him. I also figured that this is a good place to figure this out considering the repair gurus that check this forum.
Repair Career Advice...
-
Wes Krygsman
- 3 valves
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:20 am
- Location: Clifton, New Jersey
Repair Career Advice...
Wes Krygsman
Adjunct professor-Kean University
Freelance musician-NJ/NYC area & private lessons
Nirschl York 6/4 CC
Yamaha 821 F
Cerveny 601 Kaiser BBb
Yamaha Ybb 103 BBb
Conn 36k Fiberglass sousaphone BBb
Adjunct professor-Kean University
Freelance musician-NJ/NYC area & private lessons
Nirschl York 6/4 CC
Yamaha 821 F
Cerveny 601 Kaiser BBb
Yamaha Ybb 103 BBb
Conn 36k Fiberglass sousaphone BBb
-
tubarepair
- bugler
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:45 pm
- Location: Gainesville, Florida
Feel free to email or call me at the college with questions. 425-235-2453.
Here are my thoughts on instrument repair and repair schools.
First, there are only three colleges in the US and one in Canada that teach repair. There are many similarities and a few differences in each. Talk to each instructor before making a decision. Consider retention rate, graduation rate, job placement rate and salaries among the most important. Also, I would consider whether you will have the opportunity to dabble in some of the projects that may interest you like tuba rebuilding. The colleges are Minnesota State Southeast, Western Iowa Tech, Renton Technical College and Keyano College in northern Alberta.
Secondly, you should be completely dedicated to the field of repair. You will need a strong work-ethic, self-motivation and a desire to continue to learn throughout your career. The repair tech who thinks he knows it all is the one to shy away from.
Third, don't plan on opening your own business after repair school. There is much to learn beyond the initial training and that can only be done by working with and observing someone who has been in the business for years. Besides, there is a lot of business sense that many music store owners don't have and it reflects in the level of success of their stores. Get some business training as well.
Here a few statistics from my program. Students who started September 2004...
20 enrolled in September / 20 still enrolled
18 of 20 already have jobs waiting for them
Average starting salary $13.00/hr with benefits
As an example, one of the students is leaving tomorrow for Jackson, WI to work with Gary Greenhoe (Trombonist, Milwaukee Symphony) making Greenhoe valves and retrofitting them in pro-line trombones. This student was a perfect fit for the following reasons:
1) Repair skills include excellent soldering/brazing techniques and dent removal ability
2) Low Brass player (tuba and trombone)
3) Lathe skills. Completed a machining class at the college.
4) Computer skills (can help with company website)
5) Fluent in German, can communicate with their bell maker in Germany.
As you can see from this example, repair school was only part of the equation that made this individual a viable candidate for the job.
Here are the questions that I receive most-often from potential employers...
1) What instrument does the student play? Can they play test all of the instruments?
2) Do they work well with limited supervision?
3) How well do they get along with others in the class?
4) How are they at problem-solving?
5) Do they get frustrated easily?
6) Would I hire them in my own shop?
Again, while skills in repairing are necessary, most shops are more concerned about the whole individual. Most shop owners feel that anyone can be trained if they meet the above criteria.
A question to ask yourself is what do I bring to the table? Many of my students have music degrees and one current student has a Master's in WW performance from Eastman and has played with Wynton Marsalis. The overwhelming majority are saxophone players. Why? It seems they need to make a decent living to support their playing!
Again, if you have any questions, let me know.
Daryl
Here are my thoughts on instrument repair and repair schools.
First, there are only three colleges in the US and one in Canada that teach repair. There are many similarities and a few differences in each. Talk to each instructor before making a decision. Consider retention rate, graduation rate, job placement rate and salaries among the most important. Also, I would consider whether you will have the opportunity to dabble in some of the projects that may interest you like tuba rebuilding. The colleges are Minnesota State Southeast, Western Iowa Tech, Renton Technical College and Keyano College in northern Alberta.
Secondly, you should be completely dedicated to the field of repair. You will need a strong work-ethic, self-motivation and a desire to continue to learn throughout your career. The repair tech who thinks he knows it all is the one to shy away from.
Third, don't plan on opening your own business after repair school. There is much to learn beyond the initial training and that can only be done by working with and observing someone who has been in the business for years. Besides, there is a lot of business sense that many music store owners don't have and it reflects in the level of success of their stores. Get some business training as well.
Here a few statistics from my program. Students who started September 2004...
20 enrolled in September / 20 still enrolled
18 of 20 already have jobs waiting for them
Average starting salary $13.00/hr with benefits
As an example, one of the students is leaving tomorrow for Jackson, WI to work with Gary Greenhoe (Trombonist, Milwaukee Symphony) making Greenhoe valves and retrofitting them in pro-line trombones. This student was a perfect fit for the following reasons:
1) Repair skills include excellent soldering/brazing techniques and dent removal ability
2) Low Brass player (tuba and trombone)
3) Lathe skills. Completed a machining class at the college.
4) Computer skills (can help with company website)
5) Fluent in German, can communicate with their bell maker in Germany.
As you can see from this example, repair school was only part of the equation that made this individual a viable candidate for the job.
Here are the questions that I receive most-often from potential employers...
1) What instrument does the student play? Can they play test all of the instruments?
2) Do they work well with limited supervision?
3) How well do they get along with others in the class?
4) How are they at problem-solving?
5) Do they get frustrated easily?
6) Would I hire them in my own shop?
Again, while skills in repairing are necessary, most shops are more concerned about the whole individual. Most shop owners feel that anyone can be trained if they meet the above criteria.
A question to ask yourself is what do I bring to the table? Many of my students have music degrees and one current student has a Master's in WW performance from Eastman and has played with Wynton Marsalis. The overwhelming majority are saxophone players. Why? It seems they need to make a decent living to support their playing!
Again, if you have any questions, let me know.
Daryl
Daryl Hickman
-
elimia
- 3 valves
- Posts: 359
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:30 pm
- Location: Hermitage, Tennessee
Bloke, I heartily endorse your comments about the modern disdain of learning a trade/craft versus learning a degree. The sad truth is too many college students are going to school just to get the ivory tower equivalent OF learning a trade.
A lot of schools are just teaching things, in many cases, that prepare them to get a job. They are not teaching critical thinking, philosophy, and a broader approach towards more of a liberal arts bent. Now this is coming from someone who has Bachelors and Masters degrees in sciences. And I enjoy what I do, I'm not saying that, but for what I have gotten back out it all, I would definitely consider learning a trade. I wish I had gone that route actually out of high school and gone into welding. Geez, in 20 years plummers are going to be making $200/hr or something and computer programmers might be on food stamps.
I would think that given the limited # of ed opportunties that instrument repair would be a good career choice, Wes. Like many other trades you learn though, it sounds like maybe volunteering/apprenticing at a repair shop would let you know how suited you are to it.
A lot of schools are just teaching things, in many cases, that prepare them to get a job. They are not teaching critical thinking, philosophy, and a broader approach towards more of a liberal arts bent. Now this is coming from someone who has Bachelors and Masters degrees in sciences. And I enjoy what I do, I'm not saying that, but for what I have gotten back out it all, I would definitely consider learning a trade. I wish I had gone that route actually out of high school and gone into welding. Geez, in 20 years plummers are going to be making $200/hr or something and computer programmers might be on food stamps.
I would think that given the limited # of ed opportunties that instrument repair would be a good career choice, Wes. Like many other trades you learn though, it sounds like maybe volunteering/apprenticing at a repair shop would let you know how suited you are to it.
-
Mark
The problem with waiting in the real world too long before beginning college is that you will have developed an intolerance for the B.S a lot of professors deliver. At 18 I was willing to listen. Now I'm not.bloke wrote:You can call me a cynic (which I most assuredly am), but I'm not quite sure that the vast majority of 18-21-year-olds are terribly ready for "critical thinking, philosophy, and a broader approach"...
18 = Ward Churchill is cool, Winston Churchill is a jerk.
48 = Ward Churchill is a jerk, Winston Churchill is cool.
-
Tubageek
- bugler
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:33 pm
Yet another repair opinion
I was in your shoes about four years ago. I was a music ed. major, but didn't want to finish it. I was always interested in performing, so I finished my music degree (BA Music) intending to go on in performance, but I went to the repair school in Red Wing, MN instead. Since then, I've been working for two years as a woodwind repairman in the Chicago area. Here's my two cents:
If you're serious about repairing but still want the degree, start learning other instruments. Start with trumpet to learn to use your air differently and flute to help with woodwind fingerings. Do what you need to to become the best musician you can. Sit in on masterclasses of all types of instruments, observe carefully, and take notes. Learn as much as you can about playing, literature, etc., etc. If you do that, you'll get a lot more out of repair school.
If you want to get out now, there's nothing wrong with going to repair school now. In my class at Red Wing, I graduated with people in all walks of life. Some had Master's degrees in performance, others had ten years of teaching experience, others straight out of high school. You won't be out of place not finishing your degree. Research the schools the best you can. I chose Red Wing because it was the closest to the person who I later married, but there are of course other reasons to choose a school.
To give you a taste of the differences, Red Wing enrolls about 40 students a year, and 20-30 graduate. They don't try to "weed you out"; they cram as much in as they can, and it's too much if you're not prepared to work. If you want to work hard, you'll make it. If not, you don't. There's a 100% job placement rate at Red Wing too, but that's to be expected. What bloke noticed is true in the Chicago area too; there are a LOT of bad repairmen here. The "go to" guys are good, but not great. The guys to avoid, well, I'm not going there.
Lastly, don't go into repair school thinking you're going to like brass better. You might, but you might not. I went to school wanting to become the next Matt Walters, but the only place in the Chicago area that was hiring that was worth working for had a woodwind position open, so I took that. I don't have any regrets about it. If you're good with your hands, you might be better at brass. If you like math and mechanical work, woodwinds might be right up your alley. Besides, being able to do a flute repad where the thing practically plays itself or pinning an oboe where the pins are nearly invisible is much more profitable than tuba work.
Please don't hesitate to email me if you have any further questions about my experience, repair in general, or whatever.
Scott
If you're serious about repairing but still want the degree, start learning other instruments. Start with trumpet to learn to use your air differently and flute to help with woodwind fingerings. Do what you need to to become the best musician you can. Sit in on masterclasses of all types of instruments, observe carefully, and take notes. Learn as much as you can about playing, literature, etc., etc. If you do that, you'll get a lot more out of repair school.
If you want to get out now, there's nothing wrong with going to repair school now. In my class at Red Wing, I graduated with people in all walks of life. Some had Master's degrees in performance, others had ten years of teaching experience, others straight out of high school. You won't be out of place not finishing your degree. Research the schools the best you can. I chose Red Wing because it was the closest to the person who I later married, but there are of course other reasons to choose a school.
To give you a taste of the differences, Red Wing enrolls about 40 students a year, and 20-30 graduate. They don't try to "weed you out"; they cram as much in as they can, and it's too much if you're not prepared to work. If you want to work hard, you'll make it. If not, you don't. There's a 100% job placement rate at Red Wing too, but that's to be expected. What bloke noticed is true in the Chicago area too; there are a LOT of bad repairmen here. The "go to" guys are good, but not great. The guys to avoid, well, I'm not going there.
Lastly, don't go into repair school thinking you're going to like brass better. You might, but you might not. I went to school wanting to become the next Matt Walters, but the only place in the Chicago area that was hiring that was worth working for had a woodwind position open, so I took that. I don't have any regrets about it. If you're good with your hands, you might be better at brass. If you like math and mechanical work, woodwinds might be right up your alley. Besides, being able to do a flute repad where the thing practically plays itself or pinning an oboe where the pins are nearly invisible is much more profitable than tuba work.
Please don't hesitate to email me if you have any further questions about my experience, repair in general, or whatever.
Scott
-
Wes Krygsman
- 3 valves
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:20 am
- Location: Clifton, New Jersey
Thank you to all who replied. I really gained some great insight from these replies. I really believe that this is for me, especially the not wearing a tie and working in a cubicle office setting. When I have some more time to be on this computer for recreational purposes(it's very late and I just got done with some homework), I will definitely get to private messaging and e-mailing any specific questions that come up to all that offered. Thank you all again.
Wes Krygsman
Adjunct professor-Kean University
Freelance musician-NJ/NYC area & private lessons
Nirschl York 6/4 CC
Yamaha 821 F
Cerveny 601 Kaiser BBb
Yamaha Ybb 103 BBb
Conn 36k Fiberglass sousaphone BBb
Adjunct professor-Kean University
Freelance musician-NJ/NYC area & private lessons
Nirschl York 6/4 CC
Yamaha 821 F
Cerveny 601 Kaiser BBb
Yamaha Ybb 103 BBb
Conn 36k Fiberglass sousaphone BBb
-
ThomasDodd
- 5 valves
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:37 am
- Location: BFE, Mississippi
One of the best things I ever did ws not go straight to college. Military traings, boot camp in particular, taught me much I never knew I didn't know. A full time job, paying my own bills for a while, before school changed my outlook a lot too.bloke wrote:You can call me a cynic (which I most assuredly am), but I'm not quite sure that the vast majority of 18-21-year-olds are terribly ready for "critical thinking, philosophy, and a broader approach".
I don't know about the misbehavior part, but I think it has a lot to do with the liberal movement of the country. Following WII college education in general have increased in frequency, particurally for the the children of those that fought. They were the first generation to attend college in mass.I'm not sure that studies of "liberal arts" and 18-year-olds are oft a very good match, and I believe that this routine mis-match may explain a lot of the misbehavior that is the norm on college campuses.
They went to school for a "liberal arts" education without understanding the realities of the real world. That's how we got teh Vietnam protesters, flower children, and a drug culture. It just keeps getting worse. That's how many far-left positions 40 years ago, have become "centrist" positions today.
-
MaryAnn
- Occasionally Visiting Pipsqueak
- Posts: 3217
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:58 am
There are quite a few of us who believe that the Viet Nam protesters and flower children changed the country immensely for the better. I don't need to start a discussion on it but when you present a view like that I do find the need to present the opposing point of view.ThomasDodd wrote: That's how we got the Vietnam protesters, flower children, and a drug culture. It just keeps getting worse. That's how many far-left positions 40 years ago, have become "centrist" positions today.
MA, who will probably refrain from further discussion should one get going
-
ThomasDodd
- 5 valves
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:37 am
- Location: BFE, Mississippi
Sorry to imply it was all bad. Some good thing were changed. And some not so good stuff too. A lot of the ideal expoused don't work in the real world or have unintended consequences. A little real-world experience, instead of the campus womb, would likely have made that more visible.MaryAnn wrote:There are quite a few of us who believe that the Viet Nam protesters and flower children changed the country immensely for the better. I don't need to start a discussion on it but when you present a view like that I do find the need to present the opposing point of view.ThomasDodd wrote: That's how we got the Vietnam protesters, flower children, and a drug culture. It just keeps getting worse. That's how many far-left positions 40 years ago, have become "centrist" positions today.
I'm starting to miss the politics section... withdrawl symptoms setting in...
-
Dean E
- 5 valves
- Posts: 1019
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:36 am
- Location: Northern Virginia, USA
- Contact:
I'm with you, MaryAnn. This reminds me of John Adams' famous quotation:MaryAnn wrote:There are quite a few of us who believe that the Viet Nam protesters and flower children changed the country immensely for the better. I don't need to start a discussion on it but when you present a view like that I do find the need to present the opposing point of view.ThomasDodd wrote: That's how we got the Vietnam protesters, flower children, and a drug culture. It just keeps getting worse. That's how many far-left positions 40 years ago, have become "centrist" positions today.
MA, who will probably refrain from further discussion should one get going
I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain. John Adams in letter to Abigail Adams, May 12, 1780
Dean E
[S]tudy politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy . . . in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry [and] music. . . . John Adams (1780)
[S]tudy politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy . . . in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry [and] music. . . . John Adams (1780)
-
Joe Baker
- 5 valves
- Posts: 1162
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:37 am
- Location: Knoxville, TN
With regard to "did the Hippie generation do more harm or more good", any black & white answer is overly simplistic, just as the Hippies' kneejerk rejection of all tradition was overly simplistic; but I will observe that the Hippie generation, their fathers and grandfathers having fought WWII and put a man on the moon, studied their painting, and poetry, and statuary, etc. -- and now their children and grandchildren find themselves having to study politics and war.
My point: each of us must pick some from each column, or this hellish cycle will be doomed to repeat itself again and again.
____________________________________
Joe Baker, who has studied politics, and mathematics, and science, and poetry, and painting, and a wee bit o' music.
My point: each of us must pick some from each column, or this hellish cycle will be doomed to repeat itself again and again.
____________________________________
Joe Baker, who has studied politics, and mathematics, and science, and poetry, and painting, and a wee bit o' music.
-
ThomasDodd
- 5 valves
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:37 am
- Location: BFE, Mississippi
-
Wes Krygsman
- 3 valves
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:20 am
- Location: Clifton, New Jersey
I was thinking about this more and was wondering how long the repair school takes on average to graduate(2 or 4 year) and actually get repairing? Another question that popped up was "can i specialize in a certain instrument family there?" as i find most woodwinds to be a pain(the instruments themselves, the players, and their parents) and wouldn't like to work on them, but would if i had to.
Also, after talking to a few repair guys in a music shop nearby and hearing that none of them went to any of these 4 schools but went to a school for repair(so they say), what are the other options for education? Are these guys possibly the bad repair guys that bloke brought up? Thanks again.
Also, after talking to a few repair guys in a music shop nearby and hearing that none of them went to any of these 4 schools but went to a school for repair(so they say), what are the other options for education? Are these guys possibly the bad repair guys that bloke brought up? Thanks again.
Wes Krygsman
Adjunct professor-Kean University
Freelance musician-NJ/NYC area & private lessons
Nirschl York 6/4 CC
Yamaha 821 F
Cerveny 601 Kaiser BBb
Yamaha Ybb 103 BBb
Conn 36k Fiberglass sousaphone BBb
Adjunct professor-Kean University
Freelance musician-NJ/NYC area & private lessons
Nirschl York 6/4 CC
Yamaha 821 F
Cerveny 601 Kaiser BBb
Yamaha Ybb 103 BBb
Conn 36k Fiberglass sousaphone BBb
-
tubeast
- 4 valves
- Posts: 819
- Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:59 pm
- Location: Buers, Austria
Hey Wes,
I don´t know if this is of any help to you, but how about the way craftsmanship is being taught / learned / aqcuired in Europe ? From medieval times we have this tradition of "[fill in trade]-Innungen". An "Innung" or "Gilde" is an organization of craftspeople with national as well as regional or local units. Any person professionally performing a craft (Taylors, butchers, electricians, INSTRUMENT MAKERS a.s.f.) and having their own firm has to be enrolled in these "Innungen". They put up guidelines as to what exactly should be covered in practical and theoretical apprenticeship. An apprenticeship will take about 3 years depending on the craft. It´s training on-the-job paired with attending "Berufsschule" (Business school) on a regular basis (depends, once a week or as blocks of several weeks 4 times a year) for theoretical study of the trade and the business laws required.
After that apprenticeship you´ll have to give proof of your expertise in a final exam before being allowed to work as an employee and call yourself "[insert craft]-Geselle". The practical demands I estimate to be in the extended repair range or making certain parts of instruments.
To move on founding your own company you have to take an additional course so you can become a "Meister", or hire one if you choose not to take that trouble. In tuba making, the final practical exam of such a Meister course may be a tuba made from scratch without any premanufactured parts, by your own design, all by yourself.
For a company to be allowed to train their own apprentices, they have to hire at least one Meister 24 years or older.
Youngest age to become an apprentice is after completion of 9th grade, which is the earliest age you´re allowed to drop out of school. (Age 15 or 16).
So Bloke and Dave and you guys, is there a similar way to become a craftsperson and Place-To-Go in the US?
I don´t know if this is of any help to you, but how about the way craftsmanship is being taught / learned / aqcuired in Europe ? From medieval times we have this tradition of "[fill in trade]-Innungen". An "Innung" or "Gilde" is an organization of craftspeople with national as well as regional or local units. Any person professionally performing a craft (Taylors, butchers, electricians, INSTRUMENT MAKERS a.s.f.) and having their own firm has to be enrolled in these "Innungen". They put up guidelines as to what exactly should be covered in practical and theoretical apprenticeship. An apprenticeship will take about 3 years depending on the craft. It´s training on-the-job paired with attending "Berufsschule" (Business school) on a regular basis (depends, once a week or as blocks of several weeks 4 times a year) for theoretical study of the trade and the business laws required.
After that apprenticeship you´ll have to give proof of your expertise in a final exam before being allowed to work as an employee and call yourself "[insert craft]-Geselle". The practical demands I estimate to be in the extended repair range or making certain parts of instruments.
To move on founding your own company you have to take an additional course so you can become a "Meister", or hire one if you choose not to take that trouble. In tuba making, the final practical exam of such a Meister course may be a tuba made from scratch without any premanufactured parts, by your own design, all by yourself.
For a company to be allowed to train their own apprentices, they have to hire at least one Meister 24 years or older.
Youngest age to become an apprentice is after completion of 9th grade, which is the earliest age you´re allowed to drop out of school. (Age 15 or 16).
So Bloke and Dave and you guys, is there a similar way to become a craftsperson and Place-To-Go in the US?
Hans
Melton 46 S
1903 or earlier GLIER Helicon, customized Hermuth MP
2009 WILLSON 6400 RZ5, customized GEWA 52 + Wessex "Chief"
MW HoJo 2011 FA, Wessex "Chief"
Melton 46 S
1903 or earlier GLIER Helicon, customized Hermuth MP
2009 WILLSON 6400 RZ5, customized GEWA 52 + Wessex "Chief"
MW HoJo 2011 FA, Wessex "Chief"
-
Ricko
- bugler
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:42 am
- Location: Nashville, TN
Go for it!
I agree with Bloke on the concept of crafts vs degrees, however in the very near future we will start seeing this turn around. Just a few hundred miles east of Bloke there is a car manufacturer that is moving to hiring degreed employees to build their cars because they learn quicker, think better and are generally interested in moving ahead.
When it comes to trades we are seeing the talent age and retire without any replacements. A talented "crafts grade" plumber with a strong work ethic can easily pull the salary of a premier (Harvard/Vandy) MBA.
I would encourage you to finish your degree and pursue the repair path. At worst you might find out you don't like it and continue on to other things - you are young and have time to figure that out.
On the flip side - you could be the next Matt Walters, Lee Stofer or Joe "Bloke". They are great people at the top of their craft but there will be a day they will retire and we need to start training others to take their place when they are no longer with us.
When it comes to trades we are seeing the talent age and retire without any replacements. A talented "crafts grade" plumber with a strong work ethic can easily pull the salary of a premier (Harvard/Vandy) MBA.
I would encourage you to finish your degree and pursue the repair path. At worst you might find out you don't like it and continue on to other things - you are young and have time to figure that out.
On the flip side - you could be the next Matt Walters, Lee Stofer or Joe "Bloke". They are great people at the top of their craft but there will be a day they will retire and we need to start training others to take their place when they are no longer with us.
-
Mark
Re: Go for it!
A Harvard MBA should start out of school at over $100,000 per year and within 5 - 10 years should have doubled that. Do journeyman plumbers make $200,000 per year?Ricko wrote:A talented "crafts grade" plumber with a strong work ethic can easily pull the salary of a premier (Harvard/Vandy) MBA.
-
Dan Schultz
- TubaTinker
- Posts: 10424
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Newburgh, Indiana
- Contact:
Wes...
Even if I had known about the repair business when I left high school for the Navy in 1964, the pressures of making money, getting my service obligation out of the way, and developing some sort of education strategy would have probably prevented me from attending a repair school. Well... forty years have passed... thirty of which I spent in the automation industry... and I now sometimes wonder where I would be had I just gone straight to repair school in 1964. OK... here's the real answer: The odds of making it big in the repair business (either working for yourself or for someone else) are about as remote as becoming a sports star or symphonic tubist! Sure there are folks who are doing just fine playing in symphonies but it seems that they also have to teach to earn a living unless they are playing with the MAJOR symphonies.... and there are a few folks making it good as shop owners and/or restoration specialists. The fact of the matter is that most repair technicians spend their entire lives working repairing the likes of little Johnny's trumpet and Suzie's clarinet for meager salaries that won't support a family. I spent many years as a brass repair hobbiest and decided to try to 'make a go' of it two years ago when my sales engineer career ended abruptly. I'm 58 now and don't have a family to support. It's also a good thing that my wife is a professional and doesn't mind me taking a break 'to learn a few things'. My observation is that the repair business can be very rewarding but don't expect to get rich at it.
All that being said... you are 20 years old and now is the time for you to postpone the 'finer things in life' to expand your horizons. I see far too many professional musicians who don't have a clue why their instruments do what they do. Go for it all... attend a repair school AND get your education major. This is not advice from a professional... just an observation from an old guy who would have made all the mistakes even if he had better information 40 years ago. You only get one chance at life. Do what's in your heart.
Even if I had known about the repair business when I left high school for the Navy in 1964, the pressures of making money, getting my service obligation out of the way, and developing some sort of education strategy would have probably prevented me from attending a repair school. Well... forty years have passed... thirty of which I spent in the automation industry... and I now sometimes wonder where I would be had I just gone straight to repair school in 1964. OK... here's the real answer: The odds of making it big in the repair business (either working for yourself or for someone else) are about as remote as becoming a sports star or symphonic tubist! Sure there are folks who are doing just fine playing in symphonies but it seems that they also have to teach to earn a living unless they are playing with the MAJOR symphonies.... and there are a few folks making it good as shop owners and/or restoration specialists. The fact of the matter is that most repair technicians spend their entire lives working repairing the likes of little Johnny's trumpet and Suzie's clarinet for meager salaries that won't support a family. I spent many years as a brass repair hobbiest and decided to try to 'make a go' of it two years ago when my sales engineer career ended abruptly. I'm 58 now and don't have a family to support. It's also a good thing that my wife is a professional and doesn't mind me taking a break 'to learn a few things'. My observation is that the repair business can be very rewarding but don't expect to get rich at it.
All that being said... you are 20 years old and now is the time for you to postpone the 'finer things in life' to expand your horizons. I see far too many professional musicians who don't have a clue why their instruments do what they do. Go for it all... attend a repair school AND get your education major. This is not advice from a professional... just an observation from an old guy who would have made all the mistakes even if he had better information 40 years ago. You only get one chance at life. Do what's in your heart.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
-
Tabor
- 4 valves
- Posts: 753
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:34 am
- Location: New England
I don't know about the rest of society but my wife and I sure do appreciate someone who does a craft and does it well. Our plumber, for example, did a drainage run to the sewer that we were told would be impossible, yet we have had no problems. To him it was a simple mathematics problem, but others told us that we would have to move our house. While some people say that he charges too much for his time, for us, we thought he was a real bargain.
As a musician and teacher, however, I see the other side. I think that perhaps musicians more than any other craft are asked to voulenteer their work and livelihood without compensation of any sort. Some people have even become angry when we've had prior engagements, thinking we should cancel family outings or paying gigs because we should "just love music so much" that we wouldn't want to "miss the opportunity" of giving up vacation time to sponsor the next "Def Oboe Jam".
I think that instrument repair is a wonderful thing and unlike a dog and vet, the instrument doesn't die if you only have $100.00, it is usually already dead. When I look at the things that these guys are doing now, I think it is great! I am sure that there are a good many people who appreciate all of the hard work and time that goes into learning and developing into a master of this craft. Since it is related to music and music making, be prepared for people who don't understand that it is your livelihood and profession. Still, taking something broken and making it work (or even making it beautiful in some cases) is really a cool thing and will be appreciated by people who know.
Tabor
As a musician and teacher, however, I see the other side. I think that perhaps musicians more than any other craft are asked to voulenteer their work and livelihood without compensation of any sort. Some people have even become angry when we've had prior engagements, thinking we should cancel family outings or paying gigs because we should "just love music so much" that we wouldn't want to "miss the opportunity" of giving up vacation time to sponsor the next "Def Oboe Jam".
I think that instrument repair is a wonderful thing and unlike a dog and vet, the instrument doesn't die if you only have $100.00, it is usually already dead. When I look at the things that these guys are doing now, I think it is great! I am sure that there are a good many people who appreciate all of the hard work and time that goes into learning and developing into a master of this craft. Since it is related to music and music making, be prepared for people who don't understand that it is your livelihood and profession. Still, taking something broken and making it work (or even making it beautiful in some cases) is really a cool thing and will be appreciated by people who know.
Tabor