Julliard or Eastman?

[Tubadork]

Who is teaching at Julliard now?
Is it still Dave Fedderly? Is Alan Baer going to teach there?
Just Curious,
Bill Pritchard

[Paul S]

I am hesitant to post as you mention two superb programs with equally superb tuba professors. I would really recommend spending some time with the two instructors and seeing about getting a lesson with each.

I have a truly wonderful teacher-mentor-friend in Tim Olt at BGSU who has helped me fix decades old bad habits and cause me to leave playing much better each time I see him. That said, I had a chance to sit in on a Masters Class given by Don Harry a couple of weeks ago and was constantly thinking, "wow this guy is really raising my awareness to so many things on pieces that I have heard for decades and he is also sooooo easy and enjoyable to listen to." Both Tim and Don make me excited about tuba by just hearing them discuss things with other students. To me, that is how you choose if a teacher is right for you.

I believe trying Very hard to get to spend some lesson time with both Mr. Fedderly and Mr. Harry and finding which teacher assists you to feel the excitement of playing most is your best bet.

Public opinion is good to poll but when you are talking in the class of both of these institutions and teachers, you are quite safe as to reputation and you should then decide which is going to get you to be your best and make you work your hardest to achieve your goals.

Good Luck!

[Dan Satterwhite]

Make sure when you apply that you spell it right...Juilliard.

[TheChiefofStaph]

Also, Eastman is mislabeled as a conservatory in your poll. It is, in fact, not a conservatory and, thus, is able to offer degrees that Juilliard is unable to offer (Eastman offers typical college degrees (BM, BA, BS) while Juilliard offers artist diplomas). This is not meant to slight either school, just to be a clarification regarding some terminology that can be confusing.

[Uncle Buck]

OK, I know that the following is just unsolicited advice not really related to the original question. But I'm going to give it anyway.

If you really want to be a band director, then get your music education degree, and then go straight to teaching. Start working on your masters later, while you are teaching and making money. Also, once you have taught for a while, you will be in a much better position to decide whether to pursue a masters in music or something else (like maybe a degree that would allow you to go into public school administration - I wish more musicians would go that route).

If you don't really want to be a band director, don't get the music education degree in the first place. People who get music education degrees just as a "fallback" are unhappy and make bad band directors. If the only music career you want is to be either a performer or a college teacher, go lock yourself in a room and don't come out until you've picked a different career route. (I'm only halfway kidding.)

I realize that there always will be a small market for performers and college teachers, and some people always will get those jobs. However, the odds ALWAYS will be against you. If you need a fallback career in case that doesn't work out, consider something other than music education, which is a very, very bad choice for someone who isn't passionate about it as their first choice for a career.

[rodmathews]

As a Juilliard alum, I would say Juilliard. Several reasons:

- The trombone studio at Juilliard is unmatched. A big part of your education is learning to play with a section, and the guys I played with at Juilliard are still the best total section I've ever played with.

- New York as a cultural center is unmatched. Your education will involve listening to lots of music, and in NYC you've got the Philharmonic, the Met Opera, and all of the guest orchestras that tour through Carnegie. London is the only other place in the world I've seen so many options. Who are you going to go hear in Rochester other than the local orchestra?

- The low brass faculty at Juilliard is amazing. I probably spent just as much time with Alessi as I did with Warren, and I also learned a tremendous amount from Don Harwood and Per Brevig. Playing your jury there is a pretty humbling experience!

Just a few thoughts. I'm sure Eastman is a fine school, and I can 100% agree with everyone that Don Harry is an amazing teacher and an incredibly interesting person, but I'd make Juilliard my top choice and be thrilled if I got into either studio. When I auditioned there were about 30 auditionees for one spot, so I consider myself very fortunate to have attended Juilliard.

Hope that helps,

Rod

[rascaljim]

I'm not knocking the schools... but being that your music ed... what about a school that specializes more of that. I would expect those schools to be more centered around performance, and that's not bad, but for the amount of money you'll be paying, there are other schools that have very good music ed reputations that you could probably go to for free and have just as easy time getting a job.
My 2c
Jim

[rodmathews]

Also, Juilliard has (or at least used to have) an exchange program with Columbia University, so you can also get any degree Columbia offers if you want to spend the extra time and $$. When I was there, Gil Shaham was working on a math degree at Columbia, and he's a serious stud on the violin!

Rod

[TexTuba]

Someone give me advice on how I should negotiate my Chicago Symphony contract when I win the job.....

Hold out until they show you the money!!! Don't let prestige fool you!!! They gotta show those Benjamins!! LMAO






Ralph

[Tom]

This kid is getting everybody all worked up over graduate schools when he hasn't even started his undergrad! Juilliard or Eastman won't even be a possibility for 4-5 YEARS!!!

By the way...I encourage the original poster to do a lot of research on grad schools (Juilliard and Eastman, etc.) when the time comes...don't rely on all these tubenet postings.

My only bit of information is that openings (especially for Juilliard) do not occur on a regular basis and that one cannot simply "go there."

[Charlie Goodman]

Yeah, I would be interested to hear where you got in for undergrad, and what about that makes you so sure that you need to be choosing between these two schools in particular. A lot can happen in your four/five years of undergrad, and a lot can fail to happen. I'd worry about it when it gets a little closer.

[Mark]

Someone give me advice on how I should negotiate my Chicago Symphony contract when I win the job.....

Bloke pointed out that some folks might not want the Philly job because of quality of life issues. Chicago is one large city that I really wouldn't mind living in. There are bad parts of town and winter can be bad, but overall I think it would be a good place to live. However, NEVER take the boat tour on the Chicago River!

[scottw]

.[/quote]
Bloke pointed out that some folks might not want the Philly job because of quality of life issues.

Hey, now, don't knock Philly on quality of life issues! If ever there is a city which doesn't get reapect, it's Philadelphia, and it's just wrong. Politics is particularly nasty, yes, but the cultural, musical, dining scene is first rate. There are even places within the city limits where orchestra musicians live and many more places close at hand in the suburbs of Pa. and South Jersey. Plus, the Phila. Orch. is first-rate.

[Mark]

Hey, now, don't knock Philly on quality of life issues!

I didn't Bloke did.

[ahowle]

I agree with Tom in that (endless, circuitous logic aside) you shouldn't listen to advice given by people on a public forum such as this, especially subjective opinions. Even any objective data that you may acquire in this thread is neither necessarily authoritative nor necessarily reliable. Also, it seems like most people didn't even read the thread. It seems like you're pretty set on where you're going for undergrad, and that is good. You're doing the same thing as I am, working on an Ed Degree, while I have no intentions of being a band director, and will most likely major in performance in grad school.

I believe that, for people such as you and I, having an ed degree is the way to go, because you will be much more likely to get a job as a tuba teacher. It's not impossible to get a job as a college tuba professor with nothing but performance degrees, however it is much less likely.

Mainly, I believe you should focus on your undergraduate studies now, and worry about grad school when the time comes. I definitely had no clue where I was going to go for grad school when I was in high school. You shouldn't be worrying about that right now. Just focus on playing the tuba, getting better at the tuba, pass all your music ed classes, and then when the time comes, worry about what comes after undergrad. So much can and will change between now and then that it's downright naïve to be thinking about grad school at this point in your life.

Good luck in the rest of high school and your upcoming undergraduate studies.

[Carroll]

I really have to echo:

If you don't really want to be a band director, don't get the music education degree in the first place.

As a high school band director near a college, I get lots of student teachers in my program. I used to give them all the same advice: get an undergrad education degree, then get a graduate degree in performance. After working with many kids who want to be players, I have changed my tune. If you do not want to teach - and want it really bad - stay away from my band! I only want passionate music educators in front of band kids. There are enough problems in music education without half-hearted, fall back position teachers. Go after what you really want. Do not treat my profession as a backup plan.

That said, my best friend got a B.A and a M.A. in euphonium performance. Now he is teaching adjunct 6th grade beginning band for substitute pay. He probably wishes he had followed my advice (before it changed).

[Stefan]

Just because a person may have used music education as a "fallback" degree, doesn't make them a bad, or unpassionate band director.

Stefan

[Uncle Buck]

Using music education as a fallback degree doesn't necessarily result in an unhappy, bad band director, but it's often a factor.

It's OK to use anything as a fallback, as long as you have some interest and passion in the fallback. I believe it's more important for teaching than for some other careers, though. I've worked in several different professions (not my original plan), and in my experience, teaching school when your heart isn't in it is much worse than working many other careers under similar circumstances.

No one who has never been a band director really knows how difficult, and usually thankless, the job is. I've served as a religious missionary for two years in a hostile area, completed a masters in tuba performance, completed law school and worked on law review, and passed the bar exam. None of those things were even in the same league, in terms of difficulty, as being a band director.

My advice is, before you pursue a music education degree, make sure you really want the career that goes with it.

Music education is not the only fallback for someone who dreams of being a performer. Consider getting a non-music degree, which might actually leave you more time to practice during college than a music ed degree, that will give you a different fallback career. I'm not aware of any professional auditions where they care whether you took counterpoint, music literature and theory.

If your dream is to be a pro player, a music degree isn't a prerequisite. Follow your dream (for some reason that phrase always reminds me of Cartman), but get a fallback degree in a field where you think you also can be happy. Don't just get a music ed degree because it is what you think aspiring performers are "supposed" to do.

[Tabor]

Hickstownburgville Community College is my top recommendation. Those others I have never heard about and they might just not be up to the level of Hickstownburgville's Community College Marching Band.

[adam0408]

Back to the topic at hand? okay.... julliard or eastman. You are basically asking the question of mercedes vs. BMW. The brand doesnt matter at all if you cant play your instrument. And if you come out of either of these schools at a mediocre level, shame on you becuase you had an extremely good chance to be phenomenal. My point: if you go to one of these schools you better be ready to practice your **s off, becuase youre not gonna get any respect unless you do. ( no different than any other school, although you may come in contact with less stuck up __________s than at juilliard or eastman.)

My point again: these schools come with an expectation attached. If you dont attain this, then you will be thrown by the wayside. No mercy. It doesnt matter where you get your degree, it matters how well you manipulate that tuba thing to play the way you want.