Yet another college question...
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Charlie Goodman
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Yet another college question...
After hearing all of this junk about college, I'm beginning to wonder what I'm going to do. I'm going to be going to college not this year but the next. Is it all right to go into a music ed degree not knowing what you eventually want to do? I'm pretty sure that playing is not going to be my exclusive thing, as I don't think I have the willpower or the talent to win one of the elusive high-paying orch jobs, but I don't think being just a high school band director would really suit me either. Does anybody have any experience going into higher-level conducting or anything like that, or any jobs other than band director and orchestral player, for that matter?
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Mark
Re: Yet another college question...
If you don't think you have the willpower to go after an orchestral tuba position, then you definitely don't have the willpower to go after a high-level conducting position.Charlie Goodman wrote:After hearing all of this junk about college, I'm beginning to wonder what I'm going to do. I'm going to be going to college not this year but the next. Is it all right to go into a music ed degree not knowing what you eventually want to do? I'm pretty sure that playing is not going to be my exclusive thing, as I don't think I have the willpower or the talent to win one of the elusive high-paying orch jobs, but I don't think being just a high school band director would really suit me either. Does anybody have any experience going into higher-level conducting or anything like that, or any jobs other than band director and orchestral player, for that matter?
If you truly don't have a clue to what you would like to do, consider getting an undergradute engineering degree and an MBA.
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Charlie Goodman
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Uncle Buck
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I won't rehash what I've said in previous threads about how it is a bad idea to get a musid ed degree as a "fallback" if you aren't passionate about being a band director. (A formula for being an unhappy, bad band director.)
However, a music undergrad degree can be a good springboard to a graduate program in law or business. Law schools and MBA programs are always looking for ways to diversify their incoming classes, and they like music majors (assuming grades and entrance exam scores are acceptable). In fact, when I was in law school, someone had done some research, and for all undergraduate majors, law school students who majored in music as an undergrad averaged the highest grades in law school.
However, a music undergrad degree can be a good springboard to a graduate program in law or business. Law schools and MBA programs are always looking for ways to diversify their incoming classes, and they like music majors (assuming grades and entrance exam scores are acceptable). In fact, when I was in law school, someone had done some research, and for all undergraduate majors, law school students who majored in music as an undergrad averaged the highest grades in law school.
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a2ba4u
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Not to rant but.....
Charlie, if you don't know what you want to do for a career (but are pretty sure you want to do it in music) start as a music ed. major and double in performance if your school allows it. No matter what people say, there is no harm in getting a music education degree as a backup plan should your professional playing or conducting aspirations not work out. For some reason, there is a stigma of social impropriety associated with having a plan for a steady paycheck should you come up short in the so-called job market of the tuba world, and you are faulted for planning ahead. I seriously doubt if many of the people responding here invest 100% of their money in only one company's stock. Good financial investing starts with a diversified portfolio. Similarly but much more important than your money (that is, your future), you shouldn't limit yourself (a lot of people like to call this focus) to one slim area of expertise if you are interested in several.
Additionally, following the logic of a previous poster, you really shouldn't major in anything you aren't "passionate" about--engineering and business, included--because you will just end up being a bad and unhappy [insert profession here]. Believe me, if you aren't cut out to be a teacher or player or conductor, you will find out very quickly once you enter college. The key is to be totally honest with yourself (this is much easier said than done) and to consider what it is you really want to do, why you want to do it, and how hard you are willing to work. One of the great things about college is that it helps you to come to these answers. But while you are pondering, you can be working toward something practical and something that can help you repay loans.
End of rant. Flame away.
Kyle
Charlie, if you don't know what you want to do for a career (but are pretty sure you want to do it in music) start as a music ed. major and double in performance if your school allows it. No matter what people say, there is no harm in getting a music education degree as a backup plan should your professional playing or conducting aspirations not work out. For some reason, there is a stigma of social impropriety associated with having a plan for a steady paycheck should you come up short in the so-called job market of the tuba world, and you are faulted for planning ahead. I seriously doubt if many of the people responding here invest 100% of their money in only one company's stock. Good financial investing starts with a diversified portfolio. Similarly but much more important than your money (that is, your future), you shouldn't limit yourself (a lot of people like to call this focus) to one slim area of expertise if you are interested in several.
Additionally, following the logic of a previous poster, you really shouldn't major in anything you aren't "passionate" about--engineering and business, included--because you will just end up being a bad and unhappy [insert profession here]. Believe me, if you aren't cut out to be a teacher or player or conductor, you will find out very quickly once you enter college. The key is to be totally honest with yourself (this is much easier said than done) and to consider what it is you really want to do, why you want to do it, and how hard you are willing to work. One of the great things about college is that it helps you to come to these answers. But while you are pondering, you can be working toward something practical and something that can help you repay loans.
End of rant. Flame away.
Kyle
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tubatooter1940
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I entered college with 36 months of G.I. bill payments coming.I tried engineering and bombed.Tried business school and my eyes were glazing
over.I asked my advisor that,since I worked as a musician,what degree in music would be best.He told me that a doctorate in music would be necessary to teach with job security and that if I could perform,the best thing I could do for my family is to go perform.
I left school after 36 months and slugged up in my first boogie bar. I made more money than I would have at the paper mills or a shoe salesman,but not much more.The Southeast is the outback of the music world and if you do not wish to live in Nashville,L.A.,or the Northeast you
gotta take a quality of life paycut.
My family said it was fun when they traveled with the band but my kids-
both having perfect pitch-had no desire to hang out in a smoky bar and try to pitch jazz-rock to a country clientelle.Or it could have been the road gig at Auburn,Alabama where the hotel was seized,we didn't get paid and we had to hock our instruments to get home.Or it could have been the night that all those guns were going off at the High Chapperelle Club in Mobile.Whatever,I like it but it's not for everybody.
over.I asked my advisor that,since I worked as a musician,what degree in music would be best.He told me that a doctorate in music would be necessary to teach with job security and that if I could perform,the best thing I could do for my family is to go perform.
I left school after 36 months and slugged up in my first boogie bar. I made more money than I would have at the paper mills or a shoe salesman,but not much more.The Southeast is the outback of the music world and if you do not wish to live in Nashville,L.A.,or the Northeast you
gotta take a quality of life paycut.
My family said it was fun when they traveled with the band but my kids-
both having perfect pitch-had no desire to hang out in a smoky bar and try to pitch jazz-rock to a country clientelle.Or it could have been the road gig at Auburn,Alabama where the hotel was seized,we didn't get paid and we had to hock our instruments to get home.Or it could have been the night that all those guns were going off at the High Chapperelle Club in Mobile.Whatever,I like it but it's not for everybody.
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Ames0325
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joshwirt
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Listen, there's nothing wrong with getting a degree in Music Ed if that's what you want to do. It sounds like you're unsure, so I'd recommend trying it. There are few degrees more worthless than music performance (really....who needs a degree that says you can practice and play a few recitals?!). Get some training in a trade that can help you with your future. You can always play the tuba/euphonium......that comes down to dedication. If you really don't see yourself as a music educator (considering all the real world implications and not just the stuff they 'teach' you in college), then look at something else. Music business is a great route to explore, or just go straight for a business degree!
Pat Sheridan points out that his BM from ASU hangs in his shower...and that he earned a MBA from Michigan! Look at him now! After seeing what the real world is like, you need skills to employ yourself. There are far too few playing jobs out there, so be realistic. Don't paint yourself in a corner with JUST a performance degree. But at the same time, don't waste this opportunity with your future to advance in another degree program you don't like. If you really want to be a professional tuba player, assuming the orchestral route, then study with a teacher who will get you there. Learn the rep. Play with orchestras. And in the meantime, learn a trade that might last you a lifetime. The odds are NOT in your favor. Be realistic, and give yourself a chance.
Remember, there are more ways to be a pro than just in the orchestra.
Take this with a grain of salt (like the others) and best of luck to you and your endeavors!
Josh Wirt
Pat Sheridan points out that his BM from ASU hangs in his shower...and that he earned a MBA from Michigan! Look at him now! After seeing what the real world is like, you need skills to employ yourself. There are far too few playing jobs out there, so be realistic. Don't paint yourself in a corner with JUST a performance degree. But at the same time, don't waste this opportunity with your future to advance in another degree program you don't like. If you really want to be a professional tuba player, assuming the orchestral route, then study with a teacher who will get you there. Learn the rep. Play with orchestras. And in the meantime, learn a trade that might last you a lifetime. The odds are NOT in your favor. Be realistic, and give yourself a chance.
Remember, there are more ways to be a pro than just in the orchestra.
Take this with a grain of salt (like the others) and best of luck to you and your endeavors!
Josh Wirt
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Steve Oberheu
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Hey Charlie!
I agree with Josh on this one. You do need to get a degree that will give you real-world preparation and skills. Practice, dedication and a knack for being musical and the intelligence to make critical decisions will get you a job playing the tuba. Maybe not always a top orchestra job, but freelancing as well.
The feeling I get reading your post is...you know you like music and want something to do with it for a career, but you're not exactly sure what. Believe me, I've been there in that spot...I played the movie!
As for the music ed degree.....you're not actually in college yet and haven't done anything......it's too early to decide whether you should or shouldn't go for it. My advice....go do it! Start the program, do the work, learn and grow. Be inquisitive, be ready to learn and change, and be honest with yourself. You will know once you've actually done some serious work whether you want to continue in the education track.
Now, for even better advice....if you decide you want to change what you're doing, have the courage to do it. Be intelligent and decide with a clear head (and good guidance from your teacher, director, whoever). Once you get into college at a music school, you may decide you want to go in the direction of....performance, recording technology and production, history, theory, music therapy, communications.....you don't know right now, and that's perfectly cool.
You say that you don't know if you have the willpower or dedication necessary, don't know if you have what it takes....again, I've been there; lived through it and survived. Again, I say you won't know until you go and do it for a bit. Learning breeds interest, breeds fascination, breeds dedication, breeds willpower, breeds improvement, breeds confidence, breeds direction. Then it all goes in this cycle again. It will come to you as long as you are honest with yourself and are able to make the decision to truly throw yourself into it.
Just remember, you will of course be exposed to anything that can take you in new directions. Conducting, composing, teaching, whatever. Your experience and your unique talents will guide you. Just go into college with an open mind. Experiment with things, get to know yourself and you will eventually find what it is you most want to do. Then once you decide where you want to go, getting there will happen...as long as you persevere.
Don't let anyone tell you it can or can't be done....that's for you to decide.
Be great! Good luck!
I agree with Josh on this one. You do need to get a degree that will give you real-world preparation and skills. Practice, dedication and a knack for being musical and the intelligence to make critical decisions will get you a job playing the tuba. Maybe not always a top orchestra job, but freelancing as well.
The feeling I get reading your post is...you know you like music and want something to do with it for a career, but you're not exactly sure what. Believe me, I've been there in that spot...I played the movie!
As for the music ed degree.....you're not actually in college yet and haven't done anything......it's too early to decide whether you should or shouldn't go for it. My advice....go do it! Start the program, do the work, learn and grow. Be inquisitive, be ready to learn and change, and be honest with yourself. You will know once you've actually done some serious work whether you want to continue in the education track.
Now, for even better advice....if you decide you want to change what you're doing, have the courage to do it. Be intelligent and decide with a clear head (and good guidance from your teacher, director, whoever). Once you get into college at a music school, you may decide you want to go in the direction of....performance, recording technology and production, history, theory, music therapy, communications.....you don't know right now, and that's perfectly cool.
You say that you don't know if you have the willpower or dedication necessary, don't know if you have what it takes....again, I've been there; lived through it and survived. Again, I say you won't know until you go and do it for a bit. Learning breeds interest, breeds fascination, breeds dedication, breeds willpower, breeds improvement, breeds confidence, breeds direction. Then it all goes in this cycle again. It will come to you as long as you are honest with yourself and are able to make the decision to truly throw yourself into it.
Just remember, you will of course be exposed to anything that can take you in new directions. Conducting, composing, teaching, whatever. Your experience and your unique talents will guide you. Just go into college with an open mind. Experiment with things, get to know yourself and you will eventually find what it is you most want to do. Then once you decide where you want to go, getting there will happen...as long as you persevere.
Don't let anyone tell you it can or can't be done....that's for you to decide.
Be great! Good luck!
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bigboom
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If it is at all possible I would recomend trying to get lessons from either the professor of tuba or a graduate assistant at the school you are planning to attend. I did that this year (I'm a senior in high school) and it has really helped because I know what is expected of me and all the work it takes to get the degree but most of all you meet the people which really helps. just a thought but if you decide to do it be ready to pay a good chunk of money.
Ben Dennis
Ben Dennis
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scouterbill
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There are options other than performance and music ed. Appalachian State University in North Carolina has a degree program called Music Industries. It covers everything from retailing to recording. Of course there is always music therapy. (I don’t know if that is a music or a psych major or something else or how you make a living at it). The military (active or reserves) is a consideration also while you find yourself. There are many on this board who have made a career out of this option.