Initial Impression: Hirsbrunner HBS-193

[Rick Denney]

In my current state of unsociable disconnectedness within the tuba world, I don't know all the people who touch this story so I'm going to be a bit vague. A fellow of Russian origins, now (and then) living in New York, had occasion to order a handmade Hirsbrunner HB-193 Bb kaiser, back in the 90's. (This gentleman, who I have never met, apparently brought it to the Army conference this year).

The outcome of that order impressed people, and one of Dave Fedderly's customers at that time asked for one of his own. This fellow lived in New England, had studied with Jacobs at Northwestern back in the day, and had the scratch to pay for such an instrument. He loved the result, though he adjusted the leadpipe position, and apparently kept this tuba in a protected location in his house (unlike his other dozens of instruments which he stored in a garage).

Recently, this gentleman passed away, and parts of the collection are now being recirculated to new owners.

So, there are perhaps two Hirsbrunner Bb kaisers in the U.S., and as it happens, both were at the Army Conference this year.

I have always lived by the notion that if a tuba speaks to me, I should listen. I've never gone wrong with that approach, even when it required me to make a purchase when I wasn't in the market for anything. I have praised the kaiser Meinl-Westons here in the past (particularly the Fafner), and I have always admire the Rudi 5/4 tubas. This one isn't like either of those, but it's the same sort of instrument.

And I had come to the conclusion that even though I love my York Master, when I play it, I miss the Holton. There's nothing the YM does that the Holton doesn't do as well (or better)--well, except for that spectacular fourth valve on the YM, and the superb Nirschl/B&M valves--so having both does not give me something from which to choose for any particular occasion. Likewise, my Miraphone is a good example of the breed, from the 70's "Mirafone" population that we all lusted after when we were young. But when I need a smaller tuba (or a smaller tuba sound) than the Holton, my go-to instrument is my B&S F tuba, and the Miraphone sat unused, despite that I think it's the most versatile contrabass instrument I owned. I've owned the Miraphone for maybe 23 or 24 years, but I never built sentimental memories with it, and letting it go bothered me only a little. The point is: the big Hirsbrunner does overlap with the Holton, but not entirely. A proper kaiser will do some things the Holton won't do, and vice versa, giving me a reason to own both.

So, the York Master will, sometime this year, become available, and the Miraphone was used in trade (assuming I don't have second thoughts over the next week or so).

There was one other issue: I'm getting older, but I refuse to accept that fact. I have a problem with the shakes, on occasion, and my vital capacity is already shrunk significantly. So, if I want to play big, powerful tubas (despite not being a particularly powerful player), now is the time, while I can still handle them to any extent at all.

With all that rationalization aside, to the topic.

First, the HBS-193 is enormous. I would class it as slightly larger than a Rudy 5/4, but not nearly as large as a Rudy 6/4. The bore is smaller than both, however, at 20.5mm (.809). The height is 44 inches, and the bell stack is tall with a large throat. The 19" bell is more throat than pancake, giving the tuba amazing projection. The sucker's heavy: I haven't weighed it, but it's probably in the upper-20's of pounds.

HB193_small.jpg

The sound is glorious, with that Teutonic sense of command, and a deep resonance that provides a lot of feedback to the player (which is less common for these instruments). It's not warm and personal like the Holton, and also not as colorful. The Holton envelopes the listener when the hall is right, giving a sense of being "right here". This instrument comes at the listener from "over there". At the Army conference, I could hear the sound coming back to me from the (fortunately high) ceiling, even with all the Elephant Room competition (which usually blocks any sense of feedback). I have played (and opined about) 4/4 Hirsbrunner rotary tubas that had a closed or even muffled sound. Not this one. The best way I can demonstrate it is by cupping my hands in front of my mouth as if trying to warm them with my breath. When talking into hands cupped that way, my voice is muffled. This tuba is like opening the hands into a funnel to amplify the voice. It roars when pushed. Think 12' Bosendorfer piano.

I have had similar experiences with other German-style kaisers, such as Alexanders, the Meinl-Weston Fafner (in particular), the Rudy 5/4, even some of the older 4/4 tall-bell B&S-made stencils that are a lot like Bb Alexanders but with good intonation. It utterly lacks the hollow sound of the old Miraphone 190, and it's meaty and rich.

I just love big tubas. My own sound is rather thin and nasal--the product of never having really mastered the fundamentals properly--and big tubas really make me sound better than I am.

Of course, the big question with kaisers is intonation. Many have a glorious sound coupled to an unusable scale. This one is not perfect, but it seems (so far) to be quite manageable. The fifth partial is, as usual, flat, and B, C and D on the staff need a lift. This is easily done with the spring-centered first slide, which is designed with socks, trombone-slide-style, to facilitate easy adjustment and reliable return to a default position. The first valve needs to be vented, though, to take better advantage of that.

The sixth partial, which is sharp for the Holton (when I play it) and also congenitally sharp on many kaisers, is perfect on this instrument. The 8th partial is a bit flat, which is good--it's a lot easier to push up than pull down in that register. Nothing settled further out than about 12 cents, once I got the tuner I was using calibrated back to A440 (another story). The pitch was also fairly flexible without undermining the sound, at least it seems that way now. I'll know that answer better with the passage of time.

The present best slide settings are: Main slide out about half an inch (there will be trouble with a group that insists on playing sharp), first slide out about 1-1/2 inches (for the Eb below the staff, and about where the slide was intended to be set), second slide is showing about 3/8", third slide about 3/4", and fourth slide, which has about a mile and a half of pull, is out about an inch.

Attacks are clean and it is easy to play technical stuff on this tuba, though the valve springs are bit stiff compared to what I'm used to. In the middle of the register, the Holton can be more technical. But near the top of the staff the Hirsbrunner is easier to play than the Holton. Above the staff, though, not so much (not that I'm ever asked to play a Bb tuba that high). The fourth-valve on the Hirsbrunner is magic, and it reminds me of the fourth valve on the York Master. I have a terrible low register, and popping out low F's and E's are really very much point-n-shoot. The alternate resonances below that are excellent, as on most big tubas, including the Holton.

The Hirsbrunner is more demanding of air and embouchure, though, and will sound fuzzy and hollow if the note is not fed properly. The Holton is more forgiving in that regard, but both benefit from the Geibish cup of the Sellmansberger Symphony that I'm using. I suspect that playing the Hirsbrunner will make me better on both instruments, but the Holton will be better company in my old age.

I was using my Sellmansberger Symphony mouthpiece, as I do on the Holton, and it seems to work well.

This is the first Bb tuba I've bought since the Holton, which I bought a decade ago. I feel as though I have among the best available of the two distinctive styles of big contrabass tubas in Bb, and it will be a privilege to get to choose between them in the future.

At some point, I'll make a side-by-side picture of the Holton and the Hirsbrunner and will post it.

Rick "whose only complaint is that Cronkhite doesn't make a bag big enough for the Hirsbrunner" Denney

[bisontuba]

Rick-
Enjoy your new baby!!
Mark

[bort]

[...words...]

Awesome tuba!

[dmmorris]

Nice post Rick. That is one purty horn.

so.....will you change your avatar?

[Lars Trawen]

Sorry Rick,
Actually I would not classify any of you mentioned tubas a kaiser and be called 6/4 by the manufacturer except the RM 5/4. But they have their own scale.
Also Melton/MW calls the Fafner a 5/4 tuba.
In my opinion a true kaiser should have 500 mm bell, 21.5 mm bore, be 1140 mm tall and of course have rotary valves.
I don't know any manufacturer making such a tuba today.
Probably the smaller tubas have been refined and improved during the last decades. There is no need for the biggest ones today.
Just my opinion,
Lars

[Rick Denney]

Sorry Rick,
Actually I would not classify any of you mentioned tubas a kaiser and be called 6/4 by the manufacturer except the RM 5/4. But they have their own scale.
Also Melton/MW calls the Fafner a 5/4 tuba.
In my opinion a true kaiser should have 500 mm bell, 21.5 mm bore, be 1140 mm tall and of course have rotary valves.
I don't know any manufacturer making such a tuba today.
Probably the smaller tubas have been refined and improved during the last decades. There is no need for the biggest ones today.
Just my opinion,
Lars

It seems to me that your dimensions are designed to exclude models you don't want to include in the designation, rather than to be consistent with what most people would think "kaiser" means. There have been several threads on the definition of "kaiser", and none noted any authoritative definition that would be so specific in terms of dimensions.

Of course, many instruments that were specifically called "kaiser" by their makers had smaller bells than 500mm, and some were significantly smaller, in the time when German instruments had less flare than they do now (but still with the same large throat).

And I really don't think that 20mm between the HBS-193 and your 1140mm threshold makes much difference when comparing two tubas that are much closer to four feet tall than three.

I also put even less stock in the quarter system than in arbitrary definitions of "kaiser".

Kaiser tubas are very large, while non-kaiser tubas are only large, and that's about as specific as I think one can get with any real meaning. In that sense, this is a kaiser tuba, and the HBS-192 is not.

Rick "whose pinky finger won't find the empty space around this tuba and the Jakob Winter 'Kaiser'-size hard case" Denney

[Three Valves]

I thought those white silk sheets reminded me of something...

[tclements]

If you love the sound, jump on it. It looks like a GREAT horn. Keep the others, just in case. After a year or so, if you don't play the others, sell them off. Plus, with Peter's retirement, this instrument has some historical value as well. Good luck!!

[bort]

Any idea how this compares to the HB-6 (the Kaiser CC)?

[Rick Denney]

Any idea how this compares to the HB-6 (the Kaiser CC)?

The HB numbers were CMC concoctions. I think the HB-6 was the HBS-293, and mine was possibly called the HB-7.



Here's what Hirsbrunner says about the HBS-193 BBb:

Technical details
Bore size 20.5 mm
Bell diameter 480 mm
Height 1120 mm

Other informations
4 valves rotary
German style Kaisertuba
Hand made/on request

Here's what they say about the CC HBS-293:

Technical details
Bore size 20.5 mm
Bell diameter 480 mm
Height 1050 mm

Other informations
5 valves rotary
5/4 size
Hand made/on request

So: Slide out the bottom (like many large rotary CC tubas), and three inches shorter.

Interestingly, they use the "5/4" designation for the C, but "German-style kaisertuba" for the Bb, and "Grand Orchestra model" for the Yorkbrunner.

Rick "photos from the Hirsbrunner website; not at the same scale" Denney

[oedipoes]

Hirsbrunner makes and has made some remarkably nice BBb kaiser tubas...
Seems like they changed the design over the years, especially the bell flare profile.
In the attached pictures you can see Heiko Triebener with a restored Hirsbrunner with a bell profile that resembles the Melton 197 more than your newer 193.
I had the pleasure to try a 193 version with a bell flare somewhere in-between yours and the old one from Heiko, and had a glorious sound (although not the easiest tuba to play)l!

Enjoy this tuba!

[bort]

All very cool, and thanks for the info on the CC.

That is a VERY tall tuba... Rick, I hope you are a tall person!

[cjk]

Paul Haugan (RIP) had one of these Hirsbrunner Kaiser BBb tubas. I remember reading an article on tubanews.com (maybe) about his tuba collection. I believe it was one of his favored instruments. The article was written by Sean Greene.

Post by Paul mentioning it:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11221&start=36" target="_blank

[Rick Denney]

Paul Haugan (RIP) had one of these Hirsbrunner Kaiser BBb tubas. I remember reading an article on tubanews.com (maybe) about his tuba collection. I believe it was one of his favored instruments. The article was written by Sean Greene.

Post by Paul mentioning it:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11221&start=36" target="_blank" target="_blank

Now that you mention it, I recall Paul talking about it. I wonder what became of it?

Rick "Paul also found a Holton that he thought complemented it well" Denney

[Rick Denney]

All very cool, and thanks for the info on the CC.

That is a VERY tall tuba... Rick, I hope you are a tall person!

I'm tall enough, but I use a stand and the critical dimension is the bottom bow to the mouthpipe. The leadpipe on this one has been repositioned, with the result that it is not at all top-heavy and it balances on a stand perfectly. In fact, I took it to rehearsal last night and the ergonomics were excellent--certainly better than the Holton (which, granted, isn't saying much). I do love the Hirsbrunner thumb ring.

Rick "whose section mate also has a brand new gold-brass 5-valve Miraphone 187 that was also delivered at the Army conference" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Rick "whose section mate also has a brand new gold-brass 5-valve Miraphone 187 that was also delivered at the Army conference" Denney

I smell "avoidance of one-upmanship...or - at the very least - an arms escalation"

No special effort needed to avoid those errors--we were giggling at each other right through the rehearsal last night. Neither of us would prefer the choice the other made, but we were equally pleased (without showing it to an unseemly extent) when a trumpet player turned around and said, "You guys rock!" Of course, that means we were delivering more of what trumpet players like, which does require some consideration.

Rick "noting that we made our decisions independently" Denney

[Watchman]

On another note, anyone think the Hirsbrunner website has been updated in the last 15 years?

[bort]

On another note, anyone think the Hirsbrunner website has been updated in the last 15 years?

I think it's a litle like the town with two barbers -- do you want the one with the good haircut, or the one who gives the good haircut? I know, that's ridiculous, because it's not like Herr Hirsbrunner is the person who is making the Web site. Point is, pretty Web sites aren't what sell new tubas. Used tubas, maybe. But not new ones.

[pgym]

On another note, anyone think the Hirsbrunner website has been updated in the last 15 years?

Well, since the Players page lists Ryan McGeorge as a member of The President's Own, and Ryan didn't join TPO until 2004, yes, I do.