Mars and Marche Slave

[Tubajug]

The community orchestra in which I play will be doing Mars from The Planets and Marche Slave as part of our program in April. The part in Mars calls for a tenor tuba as well as the usual three trombones and tuba. The conductor was thinking that either I or one of the trombones would cover the part, but looking through the score, it seems as though another player is needed. Has anyone else ever run into this? What did you do? Can the part be "sliced and diced" to be played by existing players without bringing in another?

Any thoughts or tips on playing Mars or Marche Slave from those who have played these before? I've glanced over the parts and given them both a listen and they look like fun. Thanks!

[Ben]

You need an additional performer for the tenor tuba part. Have a great time!

[Craig Garner]

Allow me to answer your question in two ways: as a "musical" question and as a "personnel" question.

From a "musical" standpoint, I TOTALLY agree with Ben. That tenor tuba part is so important, and moreover, so characteristic in sound, that it would be a crying shame to play it on any other instrument. Go get another player!!!

From a "personnel" standpoint....let's start by saying if your community orchestra is performing these two war-horses, personnel cannot possibly be a problem. I mean, are you going to use 4 trumpets, 6 horns, 2 harps, bass oboe , contra-bassoon.....if so, you can certainly find a tenor tuba player!! But, for a moment, let's just assume that you cannot find a tenor tuba player (or don't want to pay for one...and please don't let this be the reason for your question), and you are willing to compromise the music by shifting that part onto other players (probably the trombones). Could it be done? Yes, it could be done. You would need to write out certain sections of that part into the trombones (other sections of the tenor tuba part are already doubled on other instruments, like horns). I looked over the score, and it can be done (please don't make me prove it....but I could if I had to). But, back to the "musical" issue.....why would you want to??

[tbn.al]

When we did it I flipped over and played it on Euphonium and we got another guy to play the bass bone part. It really needs the timbre of the conical instrument or it just won't be Holst.

[Tubajug]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I'm just trying to come with some "ammunition" to talk to the conductor (who is a friend of mine, so it won't be a big deal). He just figured one of us could pick up a euph and play the part. But after I looked, I thought it would need another player even though, as you said Craig, some of the parts are doubled elsewhere, but not all of them.

Our group usually only has to bring in extra percussionists (we finally have two "regulars" now! We only had one for a long time), so this should be fun.

Please keep replying if anyone has any more insights!

[Tubajug]

Thanks for the helpful tips Wade! I was hoping you would chime in. Whenever someone asks about orchestral parts, I wait to read your response because it always very helpful with specific suggestions. I've looked back over the part and marked it in at those places so I don't become the "redneck" when we read these in a few weeks.

We'll see what happens with the extra players for Mars, I saw the bass oboe, contra bassoon, etc and also raised an eyebrow...

[eupher61]

This may be unfair, in this specific instance, but the music director should have worked out these issues before programming the piece. It should be no surprise that a dedicated tenor tuba player is needed.

[Tom]

The Planets is apparently "cued" to make a performance possible with a minimum instrumentation of:

3[inc. pic]3[inc. Eh horn]3[inc. bcl]2 - 4331 - 2 timp + 3 perc., 2 harps, celeste, strings

I'm not sure which edition has that, but supposedly it is possible. Is this what your MD has in mind or is her going for the full blown instrumentation. Maybe worth looking into. Tuba part either way!

This is the full blown version:

4[1.2.3/pic 1.4/alto fl./pic 2]4[1.2.3/bass ob. Eh]4[1.2.3.bcl]4[1.2.3.cbn] - 6431 - tenor tuba - 2 timpani + 4 percussion, 2 harps, celeste, organ, strings.

If he's going for the full blown instrumentation, you've got to have one of the biggest and strongest community orchestras I've ever heard of. If the usual procedure is only bring in a few extra percussionists, he's in for a surprise. To answer your specific question - yes, you need the tenor tuba - no, a trombone or tuba shouldn't just "cover it." This isn't one of those pieces that typically works well with what I'll call "available forces" of less than the instrumentation though that never seems to stop groups from trying it.

March Slav isn't as wacky, though to be done correctly, the trumpet parts are actually divided 2 cornet and 2 trumpet.

How many rehearsals are there for this program? I truly wish you the best, but wow...it's only about 2 months out and the personnel issues haven't been resolved? Yikes!

[tbn.al]

I'd wager that there's some really fine baritone horn player in your area who who's chompin' at the bit to cover that part...and gratis.

I would further wager that there are actually several in the area who could nail the part and who would probably pay to get to play it.

I agree 100%. When we played it the MD, who knew I doubled, came to me and asked which part I wanted to play. He had already had several local baritone/Euphonium players who had expressed excitement hoping to get the part. It didn't take me 10 seconds to decide to play the TT part. How many times in his life does an amateur get to play that part? I wound up playing that and Bydlo in successive years. What a joy!

[Mark]

I heard the Seattle Symphony play this a couple of years ago. The tenor tuba part was terrific, However, when I looked to see who was playing it, there were only 3 trombones and 1 tuba in the low brass section. I finally realized it was the Symphony's principal horn player using a tenor horn or possibly a Wagner tuba (it was hard to see him from my seat).

So, there is another option for you.

If you like to hire Jeff Fair, you can probably get him for a few thousands dollars plus first-class travel and lodging.

Or, find a local euphonium player or French horn player with a tenor horn. And, just to be clear, absolutely do not let a French horn player play this on a French horn.

[Tubajug]

Thanks again for all the replies. I'll talk to the director about getting another player. We are an orchestra of about 70 people. We're attached to a smaller university, so we're part students, part community members. The wind section is mostly the community people, most of the students are in the string section. Our director has been getting more ambitious, which is good in that it's challenging us. This is by far the most challenging set I've seen (granted, this is only my second season). But here's the whole set, the theme is "Epic Landscapes."

MARS, BRINGER OF WAR, HOLST
MARCHE SLAVE, TCHAIKOVSKY
MOLLY ON THE SHORE, GRAINGER
THE SEA HAWK, KORNGOLD
INDIANA JONES & CRYSTAL... WILLIAMS
STAR WARS EPIC I, WILLIAMS
STAR WARS EPIC II, WILLIAMS

So we'll see what happens....

[Tubajug]

Oh yeah, and we rehearse once a week for two hours and there are nine rehearsals between our upcoming concert (Feb. 22) and the final one on April 26. Whoo hoo!

[Tubajug]

And, just to be clear, absolutely do not let a French horn player play this on a French horn.

[Tubajug]

Sorry, Jordan, I gave you all that information about The Planets because I failed to read your inquiry about MARS. My bad, man. Again, sorry...

No worries! Now I want to play that E in the Uranus movement...

[Radar]

Wish I lived closer, I'd jump at the chance to play that part on Euphonium with an orchestra. I'm sure as Bloke suggested there are any number of players in your area that would also like the opportunity.

[swillafew]

Planets:

Would Mr. Holst have expected to get the same horn we all call a euphonium as the tenor tuba? I noticed the other part is "Bass tuba" in the score and I expect that term has been used in more than one way.

[windshieldbug]

Planets:

Would Mr. Holst have expected to get the same horn we all call a euphonium as the tenor tuba?

Mr. Holst wouldn't have expected to get the same horn we call a trombone as the trombone!

[swillafew]

Nobody's asking me to play Mars, but already played "Bydlo" this year on an antique euphonium. It was a year older than Ravel's arrangement so I felt a little sense of history if not exactly being correct. Should the call come I don't want to embarrass myself more than normal.

[smitwill1]

I recall hearing a story that when asked the about the "tenor tuba" versus "euphonium" part Holst said something along the lines that the tenor tuba was a euphonium, but "without all that silly vibrato".
Bill

[Rick Denney]

Planets:

Would Mr. Holst have expected to get the same horn we all call a euphonium as the tenor tuba? I noticed the other part is "Bass tuba" in the score and I expect that term has been used in more than one way.

Mr. Holst was a British composer and brass player. He would have expected a euphonium. And the Bass tuba would have been a Barlow F with five valves, not that much bigger than a euphonium.

Rick "and pea-shooter trombones with a straight bass trombone in G, and narrow-bore trumpets, and so on" Denney