Philosophical thoughts on "clones"

[bort]

I'm slow here -- are we talking about Jupiter?

[toobagrowl]

"Eastman" sousaphones look so VERY VERY similar (to me) to Yamaha sousaphones, that it is difficult for me to believe that they are NOT made in the same factory.

Yamaha & Eastman sousaphones.jpg

That would be like someone saying: "'Wisemann' tubas look so VERY VERY similar to (real) PT-6P tubas, that it is difficult for me to believe that they are NOT made in the same factory".

See where I'm getting at here?

The Eastman sousaphones are clones of the real Yamaha sousaphones. And I see some differences between them, mostly the ferrules.

Again, the Yamaha tubas and sousaphones I've played clearly said "Made in Japan" imprinted on the valve cluster.

[bort]

I suspect the reason that Taiwanese instruments are not viewed as "controversial" is because they are distributed by an American company that marks up wholesale cost to around 80% of the wholesale cost of American-made and European-made products. The only "controversy", I believe, is in pricing.

I also think they are not viewed as controversial because Taiwan is politically a bit different than the mainland, and it's also slightly more well-known. There's one big city (Taipei) and a large amount of the island's population lives there. Not too much mystery for us westerners.

On the mainland, it's a huge mystery. There are over a billion people, and while people can name large cities like Beijing and Shanghai, but what about the 3rd or 4th largest (Tianjin and Guangzhou, each with 11 million people). There are something like 40 cities in China with over 2 million people, and I can name maybe 3 of them. That's a TON of people, a TON of cities, and for a country that has a shady environmental and human rights reputation, that's pretty uncomfortable. I'm guessing that there's a "good" China and a "bad" China, but at this scale, and with that many people in places unknown to westerners, I think it's only natural for there to be some controversy. Maybe all of China is "good," but they sure don't seem eager to make that distinction. At any rate, if I'm going to buy a "high end" product from China, I want to know where in China it's from.

Actually (and for different reasons), I find that question popping up in my mind wherever I travel. For example, when I went to Germany, and saw things labeled "Made in Germany," I thought "yeah that's great... but where in Germany?"

[Wyvern]

(2) nobody smiled or talked - ever

Japan sounds very different from China!

Smiling and chatting ladies polishing prototype Wessex Excelsior

[Wyvern]

Is "so-and-so was smiling" vs. "so-and-so wasn't smiling" any indication of anything in particular?

One indication of a happy workforce? Seriously wherever I go around the factory everyone is smiling and cheerful. The CEO is approachable and even hands on, helping to get a sticking valve working on Excelsior when he came around and found we had a small technical problem!

Now I wonder how many CEO of larger American corporations would get their hands dirty like that

[Wyvern]

Now I wonder how many CEO of larger American corporations would get their hands dirty like that

Are there any larger British corporations making anything anymore? Maybe look at home first for that hands-on CEO getting dirty.

Actually that was a comment made by my American colleague at the time. The same applies in UK - and British industry is now only a shadow of its former strength...

The point of my comment is western industry is now so much run by accountants, rather than people who know what actually happens on the factory floor.

[Wyvern]

Edgware St...London...shuttered...no smiles

...and it's not as if they didn't make some really nice instruments in that plant...I wouldn't trade my Besson comp. Eb (or, if I owned another of the same that was just as good - of which I've played several) for any other make of comp. Eb (and yes...some of them are "very good") that I've played to date.

No smiles are not necessary - and only being there for some period of time can you get to know what a factory is really like.

Pleased you are enjoying your Besson Eb - welcome to the Eb players club!

[Wyvern]

Always sad when a great factory like that closes. I remember touring the Edgware factory when I was a teenager