B&S PT-5. Know anything?

[ginnboonmiller]

I'm just about positive I'm getting one. 4 piston 5/4 CC. All I know is, super rare, was in production for about 20 minutes and then replaced with the PT-6, sounds amazing, responds like nobody's business, didn't have the intonation issues I expected. Please tell me about this if you know anything - Matthew at Dillon has only seen three as far as he can remember, including the one I am on the verge of owning.

[Wyvern]

Below is advert from a TUBA Journal in 1992 for your interest.

To find out more about the PT-5 you would do best emailing Robert Tucci who I am sure will help - he is a really nice man. I contacting him about my PT-3 and from the serial number he could even tell me the precise date he inspected it before leaving the factory! He can be emailed at Bob (at) perantucci.com

Let us know what you find out about the PT-5 and how yours plays.

Jonathan "who particularly likes the response of Perantucci tubas"

[ginnboonmiller]

Other than "no 5th valve", how different are these, really, from a PT6?

Well, for one thing, everything I can think of except maybe the bore through the valves and the diameter of the bell.

I'm not a serious B&S expert beyond playing a bunch of them in the 1990s and having one on hold at Dillon right now. But the wrap is entirely different from the PT-6. The PT-5 is a lot more... what, oblong, I guess, and the pistons are set kind of on a diagonal, almost Marzan style. And again, I didn't get a chance to A/B or anything, but it's pretty clearly a different model altogether and not just an unimproved prototype or anything.

EDIT: Looks like a smaller bell on the PT-5, too. So, maybe just "everything."

[ginnboonmiller]

Below is advert from a TUBA Journal in 1992 for your interest.


Jonathan "who particularly likes the response of Perantucci tubas"

Thank you!

Yes, the response on this horn was almost shocking to me, even among the Nirschls and Miraphones and cut Yorks and such that I played. It really stood out as the CC tuba that was most willing to make the sound I wanted, right when I wanted to, from a whisper to a scream.

I'll say something else here, at the risk of catching flack for it, but I know Matthew has my back... The new Dillon branded, Chinese built 186 copies are fantastic. Not just fantastic for the money, although the price is low enough to make a person dismiss it as a kid's toy. Great response again, fantastic intonation, that Miraphone sound in spades - too aggressive for me and I never quite got the "bark" and its appeal, at least in my music. But I was sorely tempted to get it and re-furnish my apartment with my budgeted tuba money.

[Wyvern]

As near as I can tell, the rotary valve cluster on the PT-3-4-5 and 6 (and even the Neptunes!) are very near identical.

Comparing slides I think my Neptune, PT-3 and PT-15 all have much the same valve assembly. Who would think a 6/4 and an F would have the same valves? Great bit of standardisation, but it seems to work well! I am convinced that is why the smaller tubas are so free blowing and the Neptune so easy to control for its size.

I have never seen a PT-5, but wonder if the modern PT-20 uses the same 19" bell, but obviously with shorter throat???

Comparing the PT-15 with PT-3, I suspect they share the same bell?

Jonathan "who thinks B&S standardise components wherever possible"

[Tom Gregory]

I had one (like the one pictured, 5RV) from 1991-95. I fought the instrument all the way. It had a nice sound and and very easy upper register. It was very squirlly in the middle and low register. The outonation was a struggle because nothing lined up well at all. C's were high G's very low and anything else was a guess. It wasn't a big sounding intrument for its size. It was one of the worst instruments I have ever owned. I did try a four piston valve version at Dillon music about a month ago. That was pretty good. I didn't miss the 5th valve at all. I tried the PT6 just before I got rid of the PT5. PT6 was comparitively great. I was a little angry. The PT6 did what I wanted the PT5 to do. No, I don't own a PT6, but I would choose that over any PT5.YMMV.
TG

[ginnboonmiller]

I had one (like the one pictured, 5RV) from 1991-95. I fought the instrument all the way. It had a nice sound and and very easy upper register. It was very squirlly in the middle and low register. The outonation was a struggle because nothing lined up well at all. C's were high G's very low and anything else was a guess. It wasn't a big sounding intrument for its size. It was one of the worst instruments I have ever owned. I did try a four piston valve version at Dillon music about a month ago. That was pretty good. I didn't miss the 5th valve at all. I tried the PT6 just before I got rid of the PT5. PT6 was comparitively great. I was a little angry. The PT6 did what I wanted the PT5 to do. No, I don't own a PT6, but I would choose that over any PT5.YMMV.
TG

The 4 piston at Dillons... on hold for me now, and I'm picking it up tomorrow. Interesting that the rotory one had such crappy intonation. The PT-5 is far from the best in terms of intonation, but also far from the worst. And for me, it was the sound and response that's selling it for me.

I spent my four years in college playing an old Alex C a LOT, so intonation struggles are really not that big a deal for me. But find me a PT6 for that kind of money in the New York area and I'll take it, I bet. No, seriously, find me one!

Meantime, I spent a while with a tuner and that PT5 and I was pretty happy. Now I'm curious to see if the rotary model is noticeably worse.

[mooks]

I actually have owned a B&S PT-5 for about 4 years. The picture above is not quite what a PT-5 looks like. I can send you some pictures of what a real one looks like. Yes they are super rare, i don't know anyone who owns another one. B&S PT-5 has a very bright sound for a German horn. Most German horns are very dark, but the 5 has a very unique personality in terms of tone and sound that 95% of CC tubas do not have. I love the PT-5, but the only thing I have against it is that the bore is small for the horn. My B&S PT-15 has a bigger bore than the PT-5. The Model number on the PT-5 is Model 3096. Notice that the PT-6 is 3098. If you come across a person who claims to have a PT-5, then it should only say B&S Model 3096, if not then it's not a 5. Shoot the B&S factory a message if you really want some details on the 5.

[ginnboonmiller]

Considering this has been my tuba for the last two years, I don't really need a picture anymore. But thanks!


For what it's worth, it's a pretty great tuba. Sounds fantastic, responds very easily. With time, I've found the intonation quirks, while workable, to get a little frustrating. Biggest issue for me is actually low F, which is pretty flat on 1-2-4, and it's not super easy to pull the fourth valve slide enough to get 1-4 in tune. But the slides are definitely long enough and I'm thinking about getting someone to design me a trigger.

I am no longer on the fence about it, though!

[cjk]

Considering this has been my tuba for the last two years, I don't really need a picture anymore. But thanks!
For what it's worth, it's a pretty great tuba. Sounds fantastic, responds very easily. With time, I've found the intonation quirks, while workable, to get a little frustrating. Biggest issue for me is actually low F, which is pretty flat on 1-2-4, and it's not super easy to pull the fourth valve slide enough to get 1-4 in tune. But the slides are definitely long enough and I'm thinking about getting someone to design me a trigger. I am no longer on the fence about it, though!

I'm just about positive I'm getting one. 4 piston 5/4 CC. All I know is, super rare, was in production for about 20 minutes and then replaced with the PT-6, sounds amazing, responds like nobody's business, didn't have the intonation issues I expected. Please tell me about this if you know anything - Matthew at Dillon has only seen three as far as he can remember, including the one I am on the verge of owning.

Huh? Are you thinking of getting one and don't know anything about it, or have you had one for 2 years and it's pretty great?
...

Look at the dates on the posts.

[ginnboonmiller]

36961_414500696370_687491370_5222267_5102147_n.jpg

Also, thanks for the nostalgia trip, everyone.

[bigboymusic]

Ahhhh, the beast! That (I believe) is the horn I purchased new from Custom in 1991. You are correct, there were only one or two made with pistons. It was a prototype for a horn that the company would never produce. I'm not sure who produced the valve section, but they were the best piston set I have ever played. Smooth and quick. I played this at Arizona from 91-94 and the sound did well among the Hirsbrunners and Alex's in the section. Likewise, I was unhappy with my low range. LOTS of work to get it right. I used a PT-88 for regular playing and an old PT-9 for solo and jazz stuff. The PT-5 was an experiment that led to the PT6, but the quality control on the 5 was hard to manage. The 6 (with the larger bows) was much more consistent. It was not perfect, but it is a great 4/4 - 5/4 horn esp if you just own one horn.......

I'm glad to see it still around...

[K5JMH]

I Know the thread is a few years old, but I have one of the rare PT-5 piston valve tubas. I purchased it at TMEA in 1993 from Custom Music. I still have and play the horn. It is a 4 +1 and was a prototype. I believe it was one of the versions close to the PT-6. The tuba player that sat next to me purchased a PT-6 not long after I purchased my PT-5. I had to have the horn slightly modified (shortened) to get the horn to play in tune. It has a massive sound and plays great top to bottom. I use a PT-86 or a TE Rose mouthpiece (first edition) with the instrument. Mr. Rose designed the mouthpiece with the PT-5 and 6 in mind. I am glad I found this thread. I had a huge hole in my horn's history and this helps fill in some of the gaps.

Untitled

A couple of recordings of me playing the PT-5 in different ensemble settings. it has such a warm, phat sound

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/817 ... k%2012.mp3" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/817 ... k%2003.mp3" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank"

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/817 ... Pranks.mp3" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

[toobagrowl]

A couple of recordings of me playing the PT-5 in different ensemble settings. it has such a warm, phat sound

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/817 ... k%2012.mp3" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/817 ... k%2003.mp3" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank"

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/817 ... Pranks.mp3" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Very nice, man. I like that tuba sound! B&S should have still offered the PT-5P. That tuba seems to project well, with a warm, yet more lively sound than the PT-6P. Welcome; hope you post more in the future

[bort]

What group is that? Sounds awesome!

I haven't seen a 5-valve PT-5 before. Is that original or added on later?

[bort]

What group is that? Sounds awesome!

I haven't seen a 5-valve PT-5 before. Is that original or added on later?

[K5JMH]

Very nice, man. I like that tuba sound! B&S should have still offered the PT-5P. That tuba seems to project well, with a warm, yet more lively sound than the PT-6P. Welcome; hope you post more in the future

I agree! I love that horn. I love my 186-CC but the PT-5 just has such a great sound and fills any size room.

What group is that? Sounds awesome!

The Lost Lady Found was a small group of brass and percussion from the University of Houston Wind Ensemble in 1997 at TMEA play as accompaniment for a choral group that was performing.
Pomp and Circumstance No. 1 was the Texas Music Festival Orchestra at the Woodlands Pavillion.
Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks was the University of Houston Wind Ensemble

I haven't seen a 5-valve PT-5 before. Is that original or added on later?

Very much original, other than the tuning slide being modified. This was also a prototype horn. As best as I can remember, the only one of these variants made.

[toobagrowl]

Has anyone played the Jinbao PT-5 ?

Does it have a 5th valve ?

<bump>

If Jinbao, Wisemann, Eastman produced a PT-5(P) clone, it would likely sound better than the PT-6P clone, based on what I've heard/experienced so far

Waiting for the backlash

[bigboymusic]

Here are a couple shots showing the wrap. I wish I still had this one. It was velvety smooth and had tremendous volume. The main problem was that I had to lip up a lot with the tuning slide all the way in. Back in the pre internet days, the main advice I received was, sell it, get another horn that works..... They were the best pistons I ever played on.

http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/Paul_ ... t=3&page=1" target="_blank" target="_blank

[toobagrowl]

^ I like that funky wrap of the old proto PT-5(P). Looks like the leadpipe was changed a couple times on that horn, from the time you owned it to it's current owner, ginnboonmiller.

I still have my old Custom Music catalogs/papers that feature the PT-5, along with the other models. Since the PT-5(P) was only a prototype model and never went into full production, I wonder how many were made
It's really interesting to see how prototypes vary compared to the later production models.....i.e.: the proto rotary M-W 2155, then the production piston 2155; the tall proto rotary PT-4, then the squat rotary & piston production PT-4(P), etc.