Help me ID a trombone, please!

[JCalkin]

So here's the story...

I bought this old trombone at an antique store for $20. I have no idea what it is. The bell engraving reads: "Artist Model Franklin USA." 7-inch bell, small bore (though I don't know how small, as I haven't broken out the calipers yet).

It came in a battered Olds case but it is clearly not an Olds, as the bracing details are wrong, the tenon screw is on the bell instead of the slide, and the slide lock is incorrect.

The folks over at the Trombone Forum are drawing blanks so far, and my internet searches have come up empty. I'm hoping the repair and historical instrument experts on here can shed some light. I'm curious if there was ever a "Franklin" instrument company or if this was a stencil, and if so, by whom is it made?

Do a I have a decent horn here, or a beater student model?

[dwerden]

There is a little chatter/guesswork here:

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=83313.0

[PMeuph]

There is a little chatter/guesswork here:

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=83313.0

You do realize that the OP is the same for both threads, right?

[Bombardonier]

So, here's the thing about trombone... doesn't matter what brand or make it is... how does the slide work?

[dwerden]

There is a little chatter/guesswork here:
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=83313.0

You do realize that the OP is the same for both threads, right?

Actually, I didn't! However, the only reason I linked to that post is that there is some educated guessing there, which I though might help.

[JCalkin]

Joe,

Thanks for the insights!

I'm wondering about the possibility of it being a Conn Pan American/Cavalier (96h or 98h).

One of the folks on the trombone forum mentioned that it "Looks a lil like a Pan american/Conn of the 20s, but I really dont [sic] know".

Another said that he has a nearly identical horn but with the label "Jenkins" rather than "Franklin."

Some internet digging on Conn Loyalist and Horn-u-copia shows that 7" bell .484" bore trombones were made by Conn as Cavaliers/Pan Ams and sold to Jenkins, Sears & Roebuck, and others, in the late 30s through late 40s.

Since the Conns were made in Elkhart, is there any possibility that the nickel plating/Anderson connection still applies?

And Bombardonier, the slide is good except for a dent in the outer that's causing it to hang up when it hits the stocking. My primary reason to know what the horn is is to know if any additional cash spent on repair would be worth it. Having paid $20 for the instrument I could easily make it into a nice floor lamp and not feel like I've wasted any money. On the other hand, I'm good friends with a talented, inexpensive repair guy and I'm sure he could get the slide into functional condition for less than $50.

I'm all for it if this could potentially be a good $70 trombone to either jazz on myself (in place of my Holton TR100) or donate to a kid who can't afford a decent horn of his own. But, like I said, I'd be OK with a $20 lamp too if that's what comes of it.

[Bombardonier]

Yes, if the slide could be fixed up without much expense...it could make a pretty sweet lead jazz horn...

[J.c. Sherman]

There's exactly 0% chance that's a Conn, whether Cavalier or anything else. I'm with Bloke: Blessing (or perhaps a .09% chance of some intermediary model of Getzen/DEG).

J.c.S.

[Rick Denney]

How does it play?

If it is reliably built and plays well, who cares if it is a student model?

I have a vintage Olds Ambassador, which was clearly intended for students, and it has a dual-bore slide and quite a sweet sound (to the extent I'm able to evaluate such). I paid $60 for it. By contrast, I absolutely splurged by spending $125 for a late-50's Conn 48H, but I could tell that wasn't a student instrument. I think the Olds is just about as fun to play.

Rick "who can't play trombone for anything" Denney

[Bombardonier]

25 years ago I found an old Besson peashooter that was so badly tarnished, that you couldn't make out who the horn was made by... however the slide was in pristine condition and it was a gem of a horn. It only cost me two bucks (to buy) in auction... : )

[Sharp]

The engraving, water key, bracing, and profile resemble older Martin instruments. Pre-Committee.

I could be (read: probably) wrong, but I used to have an old Martin with these features, and at first glance, I thought you had just put up pictures of it. It was from the 1920s. Maybe they made the parts for that horn?

It doesn't resemble anything Martin made after that period that I've seen, though.

[JCalkin]

So I finally solved the mystery, and it turns out J.c. Sherman's .09% chance of it being a Getzen was the right guess.

I found another trombone that has a lot of the same features as this horn: brace ends (though the braces themselves are slightly different), bow guard, hex key stock water key, ferrules, the location of the serial number on the main bell brace... it's a 90% match, and it's simply stamped "Getzen Co Elkhorn Wis", no fancy engraving.

The final confirmation came when I dug into some old photos of vintage Getzens and I saw that hex key stock was used not only on water keys, but also as braces on the 60 series "The Dude" trombones.

So now I know what it is. More importantly, I also now know how it plays, after having the slide repaired.

It's a fun little trombone, for sure. A LOT of bite to the sound, and it's way more responsive than the Holton TR 100 I have been using for jazz. The slide is not quite as good as the Holton, but for a $20 trombone I'm quite pleased.

Several of the other folks in the big band I'm in noticed immediately that I sounded different than on the Holton, and they liked the change, so I may have found a gem here.

[dwerden]

Thanks for circling back with the answer. It's always nice to have resolution on these questions! Congratulations on your bargain, too.