Fiber Sousaphones - Conn 22K or 36K or others?

[Donn]

I guess according to bloke's story on that feature

The LATER-made 22K fiber-sousas featured a BRASS (not fiberglass) 4th branch (like the 36K) and those do MUCH better in the durability dept.

... the 22K would be a relatively early one.

[David Richoux]

Repair report on the 22K that was broken on the way to Cuba -

According to my repair guy, it was not an easy horn to work on, but the total cost for parts and labor to fix all of the broken braces and attachments was $180. The aluminum lugs that are screwed into the fiberglass walls are a bit funky - backing out the broken screw on the 3 valve branch mounting point was not easy!

[SousiOusi]

Finally the decision was made and I chose a 36K and ordered it.

Not the best way to buy an instrument but the most comfortable und cheapest compared to 12h driveway.

After a informative call with the shop owner and some photos of a good 36K he had, I decided to get the horn per shipping.
He offered me to test the horn. If I would'nt be satisfied with this one, there is absolutely no problem in visiting him and changing this one for another 36K or similar.

Looks like a fair deal for me.

Now I'm a little psyched and wonder how the horn will play.
Actually I've a Jupiter Fiber Sousi at home, lent by a friend.

And I am really hoping that the Conn will play better than the Jupiter and hopefully better than the Yamaha I've already played.

[Donn]

If it's as nice inside, as the outside, you should be very pleased with it.

[bighonkintuba]

It's a beauty! I love my 'real' 36K.

[SousiOusi]

I'm really happy.
For sure there are sone small dents and scratches, but its a used horn.

Today I had to play the Jupiter Fiber Sousa again and on one hand I'm really happy that it isnt mine. In the other hand I'm really confident that my Conn will play much better.

I'll post some more pictures after arrival.

And then the search for a good mouthpiece starts.

[iiipopes]

Finally the decision was made and I chose a 36K and ordered it.

It will be a fine souzy. If the flat 2nd space C 1st valve and the sharp 1+3 below the staff C & F become bothersome, you can have your tech convert the upper valve loop to a slide, and shorten the circuit @ 5/8" inch. This will let you push to get 2nd space C in tune, and when you set the 3rd valve slide so 2+3 combinations are in tune, to pull the first slide to get 1+3 in tune. I have done that on more than one souzy.

[SousiOusi]

It will be a fine souzy. If the flat 2nd space C 1st valve and the sharp 1+3 below the staff C & F become bothersome, you can have your tech convert the upper valve loop to a slide, and shorten the circuit @ 5/8" inch. This will let you push to get 2nd space C in tune, and when you set the 3rd valve slide so 2+3 combinations are in tune, to pull the first slide to get 1+3 in tune. I have done that on more than one souzy.

Thanks for your advice.
To be honest I have some problems in translating/understanding your post but this is mainly because some words I dont know.

Is there a way to explain that in an easier way?
Sorry to annoy you but I guess these are really important information.

Thanks a lot!

[bighonkintuba]

Is there... ...an easier way?

Play the flat C (and B natural) with valves 1+3 (1+2+3). I got used to that in a few minutes and my 36K and I have great intonation across my usable range (including low C). Hopefully that (and practice) will work with your new horn.
:)

[iiipopes]

It will be a fine souzy. If the flat 2nd space C 1st valve and the sharp 1+3 below the staff C & F become bothersome, you can have your tech convert the upper valve loop to a slide, and shorten the circuit @ 5/8" inch. This will let you push to get 2nd space C in tune, and when you set the 3rd valve slide so 2+3 combinations are in tune, to pull the first slide to get 1+3 in tune. I have done that on more than one souzy.

Thanks for your advice.
To be honest I have some problems in translating/understanding your post but this is mainly because some words I dont know.

Is there a way to explain that in an easier way?
Sorry to annoy you but I guess these are really important information.

Thanks a lot!

It is not an annoyance. I appreciate you wanting to get it right.

Let's see if this will translate better: I converted the fixed upper bow of the first valve tubing into a slide that can be pushed and pulled to help intonation, like a tuba has.

[NCSUSousa]

Re: explaining what he's talking about -
I think he's talking about correcting the tuning for C3 (See image below).

[Donn]

And it's about pulling and pushing valve slides while playing sousaphone. You may want to do that, or you may not. It isn't really common practice, and as designed your standard valve slides aren't accessible. So I believe he's saying, you can see a place on top where you could add another slide, in the first valve tubing, that you could operate while playing. This is for the kind of man who has a mustache trimmer attachment for his lawn mower.

[iiipopes]

I play outdoor concerts with a souzy. Sit down concerts. I don't march anymore, and haven't for decades. There is no reason to not have the same proper ability to fine tune valve combinations as with my tuba, especially since most souzys don't have a 4th valve.

Instead of scoffing or making bad jokes, play a souzy that has a workable upper loop 1st valve slide. Low C and Low F 1+3 can actually be played in tune with a slight pull, and the 3rd space C can be pushed to get it in tune, for example on a Conn 14K or 36K, or the analog models, because the upper bow is exactly where it is comfortable to place the left hand. So put it to work, as we do "riding throttle" on the first valve slide of our tubas.

Like everything else - if you are marching or don't want to use it - then set it and forget it. But why deprive the opportunity to actually play a souzy as well in tune with consistent tone as any other instrument?

[David Richoux]

Alternatively, you could play the valves with your left hand and pull the existing slides with your right. This works in both carry position or if you use a stand.

[iiipopes]

Alternatively, you could play the valves with your left hand and pull the existing slides with your right. This works in both carry position or if you use a stand.

Again, why go through all the contortions, when it is a simple matter to modify and relatively inexpensive?

[SousiOusi]

Thank you all for the effort, finnally I got it.

This kind of advice is great, but will be tried out at a later moment.

To be honest, C4 or c' is the lowest C I can play till now. But I am practicing
And first I have to learn which valve combinations fit to which note.

Cant wait for my sousi anymore, I hope it will be shipped the next days!

[Donn]

C4 is a low note on the trumpet. The illustration is concert pitch notation, in which C2 and C3 are in the normal range for common band parts.

C2 (3rd partial register) takes 1st and 3rd valves. C3 may also be played with 1st and 3rd valves (6th partial register) or 1st alone (5th partial register.) The 5th partial is mathematically doomed to be flat, barring some acoustical miracle that apparently didn't happen in the 36K, so it's more work to bring it in tune. The same for the D above it, but since it would be an "open" note that can't be cured by pulling a valve slide, we don't worry about it as much.

When you get it, and have a little time to get comfortable with it, I'd be interested to hear how far out of tune these notes are. I have a Conn sousaphone too, and they aren't really that bad. Yours might be worse, better, or the same.

[SousiOusi]

Okay now I'm confused.

Last Friday I had my first tube/sousa lesson with my music teacher.
Everything we played was written in G clef.

The concert pitch he taught me was C with no valve. It was written like C4 (same line).
For me this tone sounded low pitched.

I attached a screenshot with the beginning line of a song we play.
Does that mean vocal tenor clef?

Sorry for these questions but as you see, my knowledge about that isn't really good...
If it is too difficult to explain, don't waste your time

EDIT: I got a real short explanation of a friend. As far as I understood is the tone written as C4 but sounds like C2 because these tones are 2 ovtaves lower.
Looks like a lot of theory for me to learn...

[bighonkintuba]

Music for euphonium (baritone horn; occasionally bariton) is written in bass (F) clef or treble (G) clef (you are then transposing down a major 9th if my math is correct) as in the example you provided. Typical tuba parts are written in bass clef with the notable exception of British brass band music (there may be other exceptions; I'm not sure), which would sound an octave below your euphonium part. Are you training to play in a brass band? If not, I find it odd that you are beginning with treble clef parts for tuba. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but you aren't likely to encounter those in typical school or community band arrangements. In bass clef, tuba parts sound as written (no transposition).

[NCSUSousa]

Sounds like you're being taught to read BBb treble clef notation. That is not called concert pitch. That is a transposed notation system.

Here's a fingering chart for reading 'BBb treble clef' with a Tuba or Sousaphone: http://www.norlanbewley.com/tuba/fingering-tuba-7.htm
When you play the written C4 (or c'), you are actually playing concert pitch BBb1 (or Bb,).

Most of us (here in the US anyway) learned to read concert pitch, the music is not transposed at all.
Here's a fingering chart for reading concert pitch on a BBb tuba or sousaphone: http://www.norlanbewley.com/tuba/fingering-tuba-1.htm