Fiber Sousaphones - Conn 22K or 36K or others?

[David Richoux]

Alternatively, you could play the valves with your left hand and pull the existing slides with your right. This works in both carry position or if you use a stand.

[iiipopes]

Alternatively, you could play the valves with your left hand and pull the existing slides with your right. This works in both carry position or if you use a stand.

Again, why go through all the contortions, when it is a simple matter to modify and relatively inexpensive?

[SousiOusi]

Thank you all for the effort, finnally I got it.

This kind of advice is great, but will be tried out at a later moment.

To be honest, C4 or c' is the lowest C I can play till now. But I am practicing
And first I have to learn which valve combinations fit to which note.

Cant wait for my sousi anymore, I hope it will be shipped the next days!

[Donn]

C4 is a low note on the trumpet. The illustration is concert pitch notation, in which C2 and C3 are in the normal range for common band parts.

C2 (3rd partial register) takes 1st and 3rd valves. C3 may also be played with 1st and 3rd valves (6th partial register) or 1st alone (5th partial register.) The 5th partial is mathematically doomed to be flat, barring some acoustical miracle that apparently didn't happen in the 36K, so it's more work to bring it in tune. The same for the D above it, but since it would be an "open" note that can't be cured by pulling a valve slide, we don't worry about it as much.

When you get it, and have a little time to get comfortable with it, I'd be interested to hear how far out of tune these notes are. I have a Conn sousaphone too, and they aren't really that bad. Yours might be worse, better, or the same.

[SousiOusi]

Okay now I'm confused.

Last Friday I had my first tube/sousa lesson with my music teacher.
Everything we played was written in G clef.

The concert pitch he taught me was C with no valve. It was written like C4 (same line).
For me this tone sounded low pitched.

I attached a screenshot with the beginning line of a song we play.
Does that mean vocal tenor clef?

Sorry for these questions but as you see, my knowledge about that isn't really good...
If it is too difficult to explain, don't waste your time

EDIT: I got a real short explanation of a friend. As far as I understood is the tone written as C4 but sounds like C2 because these tones are 2 ovtaves lower.
Looks like a lot of theory for me to learn...

[bighonkintuba]

Music for euphonium (baritone horn; occasionally bariton) is written in bass (F) clef or treble (G) clef (you are then transposing down a major 9th if my math is correct) as in the example you provided. Typical tuba parts are written in bass clef with the notable exception of British brass band music (there may be other exceptions; I'm not sure), which would sound an octave below your euphonium part. Are you training to play in a brass band? If not, I find it odd that you are beginning with treble clef parts for tuba. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but you aren't likely to encounter those in typical school or community band arrangements. In bass clef, tuba parts sound as written (no transposition).

[NCSUSousa]

Sounds like you're being taught to read BBb treble clef notation. That is not called concert pitch. That is a transposed notation system.

Here's a fingering chart for reading 'BBb treble clef' with a Tuba or Sousaphone: http://www.norlanbewley.com/tuba/fingering-tuba-7.htm
When you play the written C4 (or c'), you are actually playing concert pitch BBb1 (or Bb,).

Most of us (here in the US anyway) learned to read concert pitch, the music is not transposed at all.
Here's a fingering chart for reading concert pitch on a BBb tuba or sousaphone: http://www.norlanbewley.com/tuba/fingering-tuba-1.htm

[SousiOusi]

I'm not sure why, but that system seems to be usual here.
My teacher showed me that as well as our "band director" is writing his arrangement like that.
Both of them are also playing in the same Community Band.

Thanks for the chart, this will help me a lot.

For Information:
I play in a Guggenmusik (German/Swiss Carneval). These "Bands" normally consist of amateur musician who haven't learned an instrument before as well as some players who are also in Community Bands.

Here's a Video of us in 2012:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGoVtsN14go" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Guggenmusik isn't for playing arrangements perfectly its more for entertaining the audience and celebrating carneval here.
If you consider that 3/4 of the people in our band never played a brass instrument before they joined us, its not that bad at all.
For sure we practice every week and try to get better, but with more than over a half of non musicians the progress is a bit slower.

Actually I want to play a fine sound with my sousaphone because in my opinion bass is the basis for every good performance.
For that it's important for me to play it well and get good at it.

But first I have to get an overview of the whole notation story.
At the moment this is a bit confusing.

[NCSUSousa]

That's a fun youtube video! It reminds me of pep-band music that I used to play at basketball games in college.

Don't get too hung up on the notation system.
If all the tuba parts your band writes or receives are for 'BBb Tuba' on Treble Clef, stick with that fingering chart since you're still learning tuba/sousaphone.

If you get a tuba part that's written in bass clef, now you know where to find a fingering chart. The notes (fingering and tone as played) should be exactly the same with either written part.

[David Richoux]

I have played in a San Francisco area group Los Trancos Woods Community Marching Band for many years. Several times in our past tourists from Switzerland or Austria asked if we were a "Guggen band" and we had no idea what they were asking about. I finally stumbled upon some pictures of a Swiss band about 10 years ago and discovered that whole music culture! Hundreds of bands having a great time, not taking things so seriously... Enjoy! (Now you can find most of the bands on their websites -
Search: Guggenmusik. )

[SousiOusi]

Good news, the horn arrived me yesterday.

As I knew not the best optical condition.
Some scratches, some dents and not everything is perfect.
The color is nearly a yellow white, but as far as i know is this normal.

But one thing, actually the most importantthing is, it plays absolutely great.
Never played a Sousi which is that easy to play not even the yamaha was as good as the Conn is.

Unfortunately I hadn't that much time yesterday to try it for longer.

But I guess there are some works to do on it either.
The connection between Fiber and Brass isn't correctly inserted and the soldering at one spot isn't really fine.
But at first view I just have to untighten some screws and put it in the right place for the connection issue.

I'm also thinking about doing some "restauration" on this horn.
A bright white varnish would make me really happy.

Another Idea is to sandblast the outside of the machine for a matt finish after working on the dents.
But sandblasting could be dangerous.. and to sand the machine is a lot of work...any suggestions?

Don't get nervous, I did 4 years an aprenticeship as metal worker before university - I know how to work with metal.

And now, here are some photos:

[Donn]

Looks terrific to me. If it were mine, I'd be living in dread of "the first dent." Maybe you could defer the minor cosmetics until some major repair comes along - I think no one sees those little scratches but you. When you're ready though ...

[bighonkintuba]

I would fix the brass/fiberglass junction and leave the rest as is. It looks a lot better than mine!

[Three Valves]

I love custom paint on glass sousas!!

I'd leave the brass, brass though.

[iiipopes]

Why didn't you just loosen the clamps and slide that slip joint together properly before snapping the pictures?

+1.

[iiipopes]

I have a Conn sousaphone too, and they aren't really that bad.

It amazes me that folks will tolerate bad intonation on a souzy, but wouldn't think of sitting in a concert hall with a tuba without full access to slides. It is not retentive or strange to want a movable 1st valve slide on a souzy. It is dedication to musicianship.

[SousiOusi]

Hi there

I put the connecting part between brass and fiber together 10 minutes ago.
Now it looks fine again.

The sandblast topic is actually irrelevant, I postpone it if there is need for a bigger repair.
I think at first I'm going better with "never touch a running system" than with too much enthusiasm for making it better.

The serial number, is it the one on the 2nd valve (K71xxx)?

As it seems, Conn used thicker brass than horns nowadays or is it just a wrong guess?

[bighonkintuba]

Good plan.

Conn serial #s:
http://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnSeri ... Brass.html" target="_blank

ca. 1967 for your horn
(subject to potential error, according to the web site manager)

Hi there

I think at first I'm going better with "never touch a running system" than with too much enthusiasm for making it better.

The serial number, is it the one on the 2nd valve (K71xxx)?

[SousiOusi]

Wow, that old - In this case the condition is really good for nearly 50 years.
Tomorrow (now here it is 10:45 pm) I'm going to upload some more pictures.

Maybe some people with interest in a 36K will be happy to see them (I was, in other threads).

After the whole drama with me let me say thank you to all of you and your help.
Although it was helpful in musical and linguistic view (to refresh my english).

And tomorrow I'll hopefully find some hours to practice with my Conn

[Donn]

I have a Conn sousaphone too, and they aren't really that bad.

It amazes me that folks will tolerate bad intonation on a souzy, but wouldn't think of sitting in a concert hall with a tuba without full access to slides. It is not retentive or strange to want a movable 1st valve slide on a souzy. It is dedication to musicianship.

Consider the implication that folks wouldn't think of sitting in a concert hall with a tuba without full access to slides - i.e., everyone who really cares, pushes and pulls slides. I believe that isn't precisely true.